Lawrence ‘Larry..

Posted: Aug 23, 2014 in Cold Case, Unsolved Crime, Zodiac Killer identity

 “So to You, We leave You much that is Undone! 

For You, there are great discoveries to be made & Breakthroughs available for anyone who can remove one of truth’s protective layers.”

  Neil Armstrong.



 This article will be split into Two Parts. In the first part, I will concentrate on the evidence that links Kane to The Zodiac Crimes, and why and How Kane initially came to be A suspect in the crimes attributed to The Notorious Bay Area’s Zodiac Killer.

All Files and Documents, such as Kane’s arrest record, I have obtained via the Freedom of Information Act and are therefore  Official Records relating to Kane as held by the United States Dpt. of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

In Part Two of this article, I will focus on Traumatic Brain Injury.  Kane suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury after a head on Collision with a Cement Truck on a Freeway in San Mateo.

 Lawrence underwent life saving surgery after this horrific accident. I will focus on the Left Frontal Lobe and what Damage/Injury in this area of Brain will manifest and show in terms of the symptoms seen.

Most of the Evidence I present here will be Circumstantial in nature, but as one Homicide Detective Commented:   “In today’s World of Crime Investigation, forensic science has advanced to a point where DNA is, in terms of evidence, the standard.  However, because of this, We see less and less cases being built on a foundation of circumstantial evidence. One or Two pieces of circumstantial evidence is just that, circumstance. But when you have Ten, Fifteen or Twenty pieces of circumstantial evidence all pointing in one direction & at one suspect, then it’s no longer circumstantial evidence but becomes simply, evidence.”




Kane Mug shot

Above: Lawrence Kane/Kaye/Cane/Klein’s Mug Shot.

Official Records indicate that Kane was born Lawrence Klein to Parents Morris H. Klein and Sarah Benjamin on 26th April, 1924 in NY (Although Lawrence Birth date is disputed, he also used 29th April, 1924 & 29th April, 1922.) Lawrence joined The US Navy Reserves Core and reached The Rank of Seaman, Second Class & would serve Active Duty for His Country in Mid 1943 during WWII.  Toward the end of that same year, Lawrence was Honorably Discharged with ‘Good Conduct Conditions’.

I have been able to obtain Kane’s full Arrest Record from the U.S Dpt. of Justice via the Freedom of Information Act.  In the process of doing so,  I discovered His actual legal name was:  Lawrence KAYE.  He had legally changed it from His given birth name of KLEIN citing His reasons for wishing to do so as:  ‘Beneficial for Employment in My Field.’  See below:

Klein to Kaye

  Despite the legal name change,  Lawrence would adopt a variety of assumed Aliases, each with their own Dates of Birth and several different  Social Security Numbers in the following years. This seems a cunning & devious attempt to hide His true identity, as is evidenced in His Arrest Record below

Your Secret Pal. . . 


Kane record page 1



Note: For the purpose of continuity, I shall refer to the suspect as ‘KANE’ throughout the majority of this page.



  • Description of Zodiac in 1969 as given by Officer Don Fouke: Suspects Age: 35-45.  Height: 5 ‘ 10.  Weight: 180lbs. Medium Heavy Build. Barrel Chested. Light colored hair possibly greying at the rear (Note’s that lighting may have distorted this to simply appear that way).  Below is a document I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act that list the features of Larry Kane:

FOIA Doc.4 Kane Descript

  • On July 4, 1969 around midnight, Zodiac shot Darlene Ferrin and her companion Mike Mageau at Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo. Approx. Forty Minutes thereafter, around 12.40 am, Vallejo Police Dpt. switch-board lit up with an incoming call that Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover answered with the standard: “Vallejo Police Dpt…”  Nancy listened to the male voice on the line as he calmly, in a quiet soft spoken tone, told her: “I want to report a double murder! If you’ll go one Mile East on Columbus Parkway to the public park, you’ll find kids in a brown car…” At this point, Slover realized this was a call relating to the incident that they had been notified of shortly prior to this man calling so Slover, believing this to be A witness calling to report the same incident, attempted to tell the caller with: “Yes, Sir, we are aware of that incident. Could I please get your name and location so that. . . ” The man cut Slover off and continued by stating: “They were shot with a 9mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year. Good-Byeeeeeeeee.”   The next day newspapers printed that a witness had said the offenders vehicle was brown in colour, possibly a Corvair.  Zodiac quickly writes that he is very aware of who this witness was, saying: “The man who told the police that my car was brown was a Negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed. When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car.”  Zodiac was incorrect assuming that it was this man who gave a description of his car as it was actually Michael Mageau, the surviving victim, who gave the cops this info. Either way, just Five day’s after this attack, in which the color and possible make & model of Zodiac’s car were given to police, Lawrence Kane traded his car in. (Kane traded for a 1969 Ambassador # 20A468. This was verified by lease agreement with John Miles & Delta Pontiac).
  • Detective Sergeant Ed Rust of the Vallejo PD, who was second unit to arrive on scene at Blue Rocks Springs, subsequently investigated the case is of the opinion that Lawrence Kane was responsible for the shooting and is The Zodiac.
  • On October 11, 1969 Zodiac shot Cab driver Paul Stine dead in his Cab on a street corner in the affluent Presidio Heights area of the Richmond District in San Francisco. Three young Teenagers were having a party in the residence directly opposite and were witness to the disturbing events as they unfold. Initially believing the driver was simply being robbed, one of them picked up the phone and called the operator (This was just prior to the National Emergency Number of  911 being introduced.  Back in 69, you would dial the Operator and  He/She patch you through to your local Police/Sheriffs Agency)  A few blocks away, Officers Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms were on routine patrol on Presidio Avenue and had just passed Washington St Intersection when the quiet of the night was broken by the crackling to life of their patrol car radio:  “All available units.   Please respond to reports of a Cab driver possible assault & robbery in progress at Intersection of Washington & Cherry Streets, Pacific Heights. Subject still at scene. BOLO for a BMA, Black Male Adult, 35-45 years of age, 5 ft 10 tall with a crew cut & is wearing horn rimmed spectacles. Caution advised, Suspect is Considered Armed & potentially Dangerous.”  (According to the Officers responding & for reasons unknown, the dispatcher allegedly issued an incorrect suspect description as a BMA, or Black Male Adult, rather than the correct WMA & White Male Adult. This mistake would prove to have disastrous consequences.)

P. Heights scene as found by Pelissetti

Above: Crime Scene Photo of Cabbie Slaying. I have obscured Paul’s face out of respect.

Officer Fouke, only a couple blocks away when the radio broadcast came over His radio, increased His speed along Presidio Avenue and swung left onto Jackson Street heading up-hill toward Cherry.  Just One block short of Cherry, at Maple Street Intersection, Officer Fouke slowed to a crawl.  Fouke wasn’t slowing due to observing the ‘STOP’ that was on the Intersections sign a few yards up ahead. The Cop had slowed because his attention was diverted over to the sidewalk up ahead just the other side of the Intersection. Present on that sidewalk was A stockily built White Guy that seemed to be walking with a limp, or somewhat of a shuffling motion, down The sidewalk. This White Male was heading straight toward his Patrol Car and away from the direction of the crime scene that was just around the corner. At this point, while Police couldn’t know it, The White Male in their headlights was The San Francisco Zodiac Killer, and He’s walking straight toward them!  The suspect and Patrol Car are separated by A single intersection and police are 75 yards away from capturing the most wanted Man in California and arguably, even the entire Country. . . Zodiac!

Don Fouke POV at Maple

Above: Don Fouke Point of View as Zodiac comes into view..

The man coming down the sidewalk looked up directly at Officer Fouke and then quickly looked down toward the ground to obscure His face from the approaching Cops. Fouke later recalled that as Zodiac looked up at Him, the Two locked eyes for the briefest of moment. The Man, after seeing cops and putting His head down, appeared to panic somewhat and He turned to His left & began climbing a set of  steps that led to a drive/pathway to the front door of Residential Address :  3712 Jackson Street.

Det. Harvey Hines visited Officer Fouke with a photograph of a suspect He himself had developed. The suspect depicted in the photograph was Larry Kane. Hines handed the photo of Kane to His fellow law enforcement officer & a trained observer, Don Fouke asking whether this suspect could be the man he observed on Jackson Street on October 11th, 1969. Fouke studied the Man depicted in the Photograph for several seconds, then began:

You know, in the past 20 years or so I’ve been asked to look at hundreds of (suspect) photos, and of all of them, this man (Kane) is the best likeness.

   Hines then asked Fouke:  “How Sure are You? On a scale of One to Ten,  One being not sure at all, Ten being as close to a positive ID  that you could be?”  Fouke: A Seven or EightThere’s just too many years gone by to say for sure one way or the other.” 

 On a secondary, somewhat unrelated, yet extremely important side-note: Don states that the Composite Drawing that came out via Richmond Police Station of Zodiac is not accurate. Fouke is the only witness who isn’t being shot or stabbed as he sees an unmasked Zodiac so His memory is most likely tobe the most accurate, is so sure of this that He states that when Insp. Toschi came out to see him seeking His opinion on the accuracy of said composite, Don replied telling Toschi that:

He looks similar to the man that I had seen on October 11th. However, the  suspect was actually older and heavier, with distinctive widows peak type of receding hairline.”

Don Fouke is not simply just your average witness. Fouke, as his job requires, is a trained observer! Below are both composite drawings. The first is the famous official release as circulated by The SFPD. The second beneath it, sketch of Zodiac as he appeared as per the Don Fouke recollection. The difference between the two composite sketches are blatantly obvious, aswel as highly significant:

zodiac-composite-sketch 2013


  • Zodiac referred to his victims as “The Boy & “The Girl, when speaking of them in the singular, or as a collective group would tell Nancy Slover they’ll find “Kids in a brown car.” The fact this killer refers to His victims as ‘Boy’, ‘Girl’ or ‘Kids’  is suggestive of Himself not of similar age and Refers to a Boy and Girl because that’s how He sees them and uses the term to distinguish them from Himself an older adult.
  • In  1994, Rider Mcdowell wrote a feature entitled ‘On the Trail of The Zodiac’ in which He played recordings of three Men’s voices speaking in a recorded conversation to Bryan Hartnell. Hartnell was not told One voice was suspect Kane & the other two random men of Similar Age.  Hartnell listened to all Three and stated: “The Third Voice! The Third Voice and his speech pattern is certainly consistent with the voice I heard, although it’s been too long to be certain.” The Third Voice was that of Lawrence Kane.
  • Det. Harvey Hines visited Linda Bowman, the sister of Victim Darlene Ferrin. Linda confirmed that her Sister was in fear of an older man and that she herself had seen him at Darlene’s work place after Darlene pointed him out. She said Darlene was extremely afraid of this man as she’d witnessed him kill another person. Harvey Hines placed 6 photographs in front of Linda and asked if she recognized any of the faces as being the man Darlene was afraid of. One of the photographs was of Kane. Linda studied them for a few seconds before she placed her hand on one of the photo’s, and pushed it to the side and said as she began to cry: “That’s him, that’s the man Darlene was afraid of.” The photo She pushed off to one side was the Mug-Shot of Larry Kane.  Hines Recalls in His Report that Linda claim instantly became much more credible by what She Said Next:  “I remember his smile. I remember it distinctly because it was strange.  When He smiled,  it would only appear on the one side of his face.  It’s weird, looked like the one side of His Face had frozen in place.”  It is important to point out here that the photo Harvey had of KANE was a mug shot photo and Kane was not smiling in this photo so Hines recalls there is no way she could have accurately described this facial paralysis unless she had seen Kane previously and observed him smile. This is absolutely known to be how Kane smiled after the effects Brain Injury He suffered left him Partial paralysis down one side, as can clearly be seen in His drivers licence photo below:

Kane Drivers Licence

  •  In Zodiac’s ‘My Name Is’ Cipher, an anagram of ‘Name Kane’ can be deciphered.

Zodiac My Name Is..

Above: The opening lines of the ‘My Name Is’ Cipher/Letter.  The first four letters  are AENK, an anagram of KANE. There are also three circles with the number Eight in each one. 3 x 8 = 24. KANE was born in 1924.

  •  Kane served active duty for the US Navy reserves during The Second World War, in mid 1943. He had, as standard training, attended radio material school in the same year. According to The Navy’s own Official Personnel Information Bulletin Issue of May, 1943 a RadioMan is trained in Navigation, Send and Receive Naval Messages, Encipher/Decipher Coded Messages.”  This which would have given Kane, at the very least, a basic knowledge of coded messaging.
  •  Paul Stine, the cab driver murdered by Zodiac, is thought to have picked up his killer somewhere in the vicinity of Mason & Geary Streets (This is based on the price the cabs meter had stopped at when found.) Larry Kane lived at 217 Eddy street, 0.3 miles and six-minute walk away from Mason and Geary.

217 Eddy to Geary & Mason

  • Kathleen John, along with her baby, were abducted and driven around deserted streets for hours with her abductor telling her he is going to kill her. Miss Johns jumps from the car when it slows at an intersection. Zodiac made reference in his next letter to a woman and her baby that he’d given a rather interesting ride to. Miss Johns later was shown an 18 picture line up and picked out Larry Kane as her abductor, and in doing so, because of Zodiac’s brag in his letter, identified Kane as The Zodiac.
  • In 1991, Vallejo Police Dpt. announced they had re-opened their investigation into the Zodiac and say their reason for doing so is “A suspect, Larry Kaye, has been developed.”  Vallejo PD also state in this document:  Investigation has placed Kaye (AKA Kane) in the locales where several of the Zodiac’s victims either lived, or were killed.

FOIA Doc No.2

  • Destry Hines, son of the late Detective Harvey Hines, has been kind enough to send me copies of Latent fingerprints lifted from Bryan Hartnell’s vehicle. I am posting these with Destry’s full blessing and knowledge. Again Destry, really do appreciate you taking time to email me these.

Kane Booking Prints

At Lake Berryessa, a few hours before and in the same vicinity as Zodiac would later attack and stab Bryan Hartnell & Cecelia Shepard, Three girls sunbathing report seeing a man watching them from the top of the small hill. They stated that every time they looked at him, he would look away. They described him as around 40 years of age. Good Looking.  5′ 10 to 6′ tall. Brown hair. Stocky build with a round face. In two of the articles below that Kaye is the focus of, the writers refer to Kaye as ‘The HandsomeS suspect’ and/or ‘Handsome and Flashy’

Acknowledgment to online user:  Galaxie500. The Three articles below being un-earthed by Him:

Kaye...Kaye featureKaye Hotel Altercation with uniformed cop

Below: A rare occasion in which Kaye uses and is referred to as Lawrence Barton..

Lawrence Barton Prowling Article

  • On Sept 6, 1970 25 year old Donna Lass left her place of employment at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel, where she worked as a Nurse, and simply disappeared. Six Months after Donna went missing, a post-card was sent to the San. Fran. Chronicle that seemed to indicate that the Zodiac had ‘Sought Victim 12’ down in South Lake Tahoe and the only person that authorities were aware of that the card could be referring to was Donna Lass. The post-card came signed with the cross-hair symbol, by now the known symbol of Zodiac.


The morning after Donna went missing,  an unidentified male called both Donna’s employer and landlord to inform them that Donna had left town briefly due to a family emergency. If this were the man responsible for Donna’s disappearance (It is logical to assume that the caller was the person responsible for her disappearance simply because at this point, no one is aware that Donna is even missing. There would only be one person that could know Donna was not coming back and that is the person responsible for her disappearance. Also, what other motive would an unidentified male have for calling Donna’s employer and lying to them in an attempt to buy time before anyone may raise the alarm that she is missing?) then this suggests that the person responsible likely knew Donna, or was familiar with her at the very least, in order for him to know both where she worked and where she lived. At the time, Lawrence Kane was selling Real Estate out of an Office in The Sahara Tahoe Hotel, an Office just down the hall from Donna Lass’s work station. Colleagues of Donna, when asked by Harvey Hines, said that Donna and Kane knew each other.

  • Donna Lass had resided in San Francisco prior to moving to Lake Tahoe, and was employed at Letterman General Hospital which is located on the grounds of the Presidio of San Francisco, right in the vicinity of where Zodiac shot Paul Stine and the last known direction Zodiac was observed heading. Another point of interest is not only did both Lass and Kane move to Lake Tahoe and, as stated above, end up working in the same building as the other, but they both left San Francisco for Lake Tahoe at the same time as each other, in June of 1970.

Below is a part of Harvey Hines Report where Harvey gives us a basic timeline for Donna’s movements and employment as per His findings in His off duty  Investigation into Her Disappearance

Harvey's Report Donna Lass Excerpt.

  •  A circumstantial argument can be made that Kane & Lass were known to each other prior to June of 1970 based on the known facts above. Also, if we assume that Zodiac is responsible for Donna’s disappearance & murder then why not write & declare as such directly? Previously, Zodiac wrote a second letter detailing the Lake Herman Scene when Police publicly questioned the writers claims & in the case of Paul Stine Zodiac sent proof with his bragging confession letter in the form of swatches of Paul’s blood soaked shirt that he ripped from Paul’s body. Is it possible that Zodiac doesn’t claim victim 12 & tell police where he killed her & where she can be found as he’d done with his previous victims because he knew this victim? If he knew Donna & admitted to his, The Zodiac, being responsible for her disappearance & murder then he would know that this would almost certainly result in police wanting to question him as a person who knew Miss Lass. If he knew Donna, it isn’t in his own interest to directly offer that He, The Zodiac, is the person responsible.
  •  Sunday, April 27th, 1974 10:36pm: Red Rock Canyon, Las Vegas, NV.  Dana Lull and Boyfriend Roy Norman Tophigh are sat out on a local lovers lane just West of Charleston Blvd. A second vehicle pulls in behind theirs and illuminates the young couple who are now almost blinded by the sudden bright and overpowering beams of light aimed directly on them, and hear the door of this second vehicle open. A man appeared and had a gun pointed at them. Roy didn’t wait to see what the armed man wanted, fleeing instantly from the Vehicle and hiding in a ditch at the roadside where He watched helplessly as the armed man forced Dana from Her vehicle and into His before driving away. Roy got a good look at the abductors vehicle and quickly dashed to get help. Dana’s car was still in position when police arrived but there was no sign of Dana confirming to authorities that Roy had observed her being abducted.  This was Roy’s description of the suspects vehicle:  White Sports Car. Convertible. Black cloth top. Wire Spoke Wheels. Chrome luggage rack on trunk. Missing grill and Old California Licence Plate. At that time, Lawrence Kane drove a White 1966 MG Sport Car. Convertible. Black Cloth Top. Wire Spoked Wheels. Chrome Luggage rack on the trunk with Missing Grill and had Old California Plates (TDY274)
  • The description of Dana’s abductor given by Tophigh, matches Lawrence Kane.  A month after Lull’s abduction, Tophigh reported to police that he had seen her abductor in The Spring Inn Nightclub, but he had fled before police arrived. According to Alan Dorfman, Kane’s former employer, Kane frequented The Spring Inn Night Club In Las Vegas.
  • Dana Lull’s body was discovered in a mine shaft on Mountain Springs Road in San Bernardino County, CA. Kane, at the time of this incident, lived on Spring Mountain Road in Las Vegas. (Could this be a perverted hint Kane was giving?)
  •  As a favour to Harvey Hines, Sgt. Pat Adler and Lt. Ron Forbush agreed to take a trip down to Lake Tahoe and visit Lawrence Kane, who was now calling himself Cane, at his Round Hill Village Residence in Zephyr Cove.  Lawrence was Home and allowed the Two into His Condo and the Three had a brief discussion about General Things before they asked Cane if he would be willing to give them a sample of his writing. Cane said He would and proceeded to write his Name, Address, His Mothers name, and finally at the Two visitors request, two pre-determined lines from known Zodiac letters. Cane, strangely noted Hines, Had written His Mothers Name ‘SARAH’ seemingly on impulse without He being requested to do so. His address, as can be seen below, He prints as:  ‘408 McFaul Way, Round Hill Village, Zephyr Cove, NV.‘ One of Two main Zodiac Ciphers is to this day referred to as ‘The 408 Cipher‘ due to the number of letters and/or symbols it contains.

What is claimed to be Kanes writing.

Above: Kane/Cane’s writing ‘sample.’  Some use the example above to try and ‘prove’ Kane/Cane isn’t Zodiac because the handwriting does not match. I have no argument on the writing not matching Zodiac’s, however, when they asked Cane to provide this sample of handwriting, they did so directly after questioning him about The Zodiac crimes. So, Cane knowing why they were there and asking him direct questions relating to Zodiac, he’s now likely to go out of his way to disguise his handwriting. To me, and I realise I may be biased in saying this, but his handwriting above looks forced and unnatural and several independent people I have spoken with previously also state they are of the same opinion. 

Part 2:


    Traumatic Brain Injury 

 L Cane.

“The frontal lobes of the Brain make us more human and less animal. When injury occurs, the balance between intellectual and animal propensity is destroyed.” Steven Igou – Founder of

As said in the opening paragraph of this article, Kane suffered massive head injuries in a head on vehicle collision which resulted in His diagnosed as having suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury to the Left Frontal Hemisphere of The Brain.  Below is the portion of Harvey Hines report where He makesl specific mention of this incident:

HH Report of Kane TBI crop

Above: Hines report relating to Kane’s Car Accident & The Resulting Brain Injury .

 As You see above, the part of Kane’s brain that was badly damaged was the Left Frontal Region/Lobe. This is the area of the brain that controls a person’s speech (tone, pace etc) and Language (How We use words, which words we choose, and the whole basic production of langualan). The left frontal Hemisphere also control Limb Function and/or motion which will effect the Gait, literally the ability to put one foot in front of the other, and a whole other range of things like control of Mood, Behavior, Response and memory.

The Left frontal Lobe of the brain controls the right side of the body, the right frontal lobe controls the left side of the body thus an injury to Left Frontal Region will manifest as Weakness or Paralysis in muscles on the right side of the body.  To get a very quick and basic understanding of the left frontal lobe’s importance and what damage here will likely mean, Here is a qualified Neurosurgeon briefly discussing the left lobe’s functions, and the symptoms seen if and when Injury occurs to this area:

The following information is quoted directly from The Center for Neuro Skills: Frontal Lobe Brain Injury Website :

The frontal lobes are considered our emotional control center and home to our personality. There is no other part of the brain where lesions can cause such a wide variety of symptoms.  The frontal lobes are involved in motor function, problem solving, spontaneity, memory, language, initiation, judgement, impulse control, and social and sexual behavior.  There are important asymmetrical differences in the frontal lobes. The left frontal lobe is involved in controlling language related movement, whereas the right frontal lobe plays a role in non-verbal abilities.   Patients with frontal lobe damage exhibit little spontaneous facial expression, which points to the role of the frontal lobes in facial expression (Kolb & Milner, 1981). Broca’s Aphasia, or difficulty in speaking, has been associated with frontal damage by Brown (1972).

Another area often associated with frontal damage is that of spontaneous behavior (Kolb & Milner-1981) found that individual with frontal damage displayed fewer spontaneous facial movements, spoke fewer words (left frontal lesions) or excessively (right frontal lesions).

One of the most common characteristics of frontal lobe damage is difficulty in interpreting feedback from the environment. Perseverating on a response (Milner, 1964), risk taking, and non-compliance with rules (Miller, 1985), and impaired associated learning (using external cues to help guide behavior) (Drewe, 1975) are a few examples of this type of deficit.

So, did Zodiac show any sign or symptom that He, like Suspect Kane, was the victim of a severe Brain Injury, specifically the left Frontal Cortex Region? Well, to answer that, let’s turn to surviving victim Bryan Hartnell and What He had to say about His encounter with the armed and hooded Zodiac. Hartnell stated: “I’m trying to engage Him in conversation the whole time. . .  Where you been? where you Heading? What’s the problem? I’m asking follow up questions.  I’m talking to Him the whole time!”

 Brian then commented on the extremely unique way that Zodiac spoke saying:  “He had a very Precise Cadence to His Voice, not an accent but just seemed very slow and measured, you know He said ‘All I want is your Money” and had this very distinct sound about it that I told the police back then that if I ever hear that voice again I’d be able to recognise it. I haven’t heard it again yet but it did have a very unique sound.

Click play to hear Brian Hartnell speaking about this in His own Words, below:

Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover, who answered the call that Zodiac placed to announce He wants to report a double murder saying: “If You’ll go one mile East on Columbus Parkway to the Public Park, You’ll find Kids in a brown Car. They were shot with a 9mm Luger. I also killed those Kids last year. Good-byyyyeeeeee.”  In 2007,Dave Fincher’s ‘Zodiac’ hit the big screen and along with His Big Budget Movie, Fincher also filmed probably the best documentary about the Zodiac case that is available and features so many of the original investigators and the surviving victims. One of the people featured in tjhe Docu. is Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover who, incidentally, also played Herself (voiceover) in Fincher’s 2007 Movie ‘Zodiac.’ Nancy gave Her recollection of the conversation She had with Zodiac on July 5th, 1969 in which She recalled:  “He spoke softly yet in a mature sounding voice.  An emotionless voice that, well, to me it sounded like He had either rehearsed it, or was reading what He was saying. He spoke in a Monotone.”  Hit ‘Play’ below and hear Nancy in Her own words:

So, that’s His speech pattern and the Monotone style cadence He spoke using, but what about Zodiac’s general Gait, limb functions and could He have shown an Impaired ability to respond appropriately to what was taking place around Him, a symptom Neurologists call ‘Situational Awareness Impairment’, or any other associated sign or symptom?  Well, let’s look at SFPDs Donald Fouke, a trained observer, to see if He saw any signs consistent with a possible Brain Injury.  Don states that He recalls seeing the White Male Adult and that He couldn’t say what color eyes He had because Zodiac had was, quote: “Stumbling along. . . like a kinda Semi Limp comes up in My mind because He did put His head down when He spotted the police car.”

Once again, the video will begin at the correct point to hear Fouke in His own words discussing the odd Gait of Zodiac, just hit the play button below:

Michael Mageau, another would be Zodiac victim, stated in His first interview with Police while He was still at the hospital that the suspect emptied his gun into Himself and Dee, and as He walked back to his vehicle to reload, Mike peeked over the rear seats at the shooter who, He remembered, seemed in no rush at all. “He walked back slowly and with his head down.”

Mike Mageau Article

Above: “Surprisingly, he walked slowly and with his head down. He was of stocky build and short, about 5 feet 8,”

Other Associated TBI Symptoms:

Judgement, Awareness and Appropriate Response Impairment.

Patrol Officer’s Armond Pelissetti and Frank Peda were the first Officers to respond & arrive at the crime scene on October 11, 1969 as, in Pelissetti’s own words: “We, fortunately, were very close by when the broadcast came over the radio and so We responded to that corner and did so on Red lights and Siren at 9:55 at night and we got there very quickly.

Zodiac, as the first police cars begin descending on the area and location is still at the cab wiping it down inside and out. We know this because One of the teens who called in to report the crime met Pelissetti as He arrives on scene and told Him that just as His patrol car was coming into view along Washington Street, He was watching the man who had just done this going out of view on Cherry Street turning down and onto Jackson street, where in 20 or 30 seconds time the other unit with Don Fouke & Eric Zelms in will corroborate this was in fact true as they encounter Him coming down Jackson st unaware that He’d just turned off Cherry st, right where their crime scene is.

 This encounter only takes place because Zodiac hangs around the cab after he had just shot and killed it’s driver for a excessive amount of time. He walked away and left  the crime scene literally within A minute or so of Armond Pelissetti pulling upon that very scene. This would mean that there is an overwhelming probability that the Zodiac only left the scene when He did because Pelissetti hit’s the lights and siren on His police car a couple of blocks away from the scene which Zodiac would not fail to hear and be aware that the siren and it’s sound is coming His way. I would even hazard a guess that  Zodiac could audibly hear and sense that the siren was coming from the direction somewhere in or along Washington Street, which is why He Himself opted for and begin walking away down Cherry.

Zodiac leaves the cab and walks down Cherry street and arrives at the final intersection, that being Jackson & Cherry St Intersection. All Zodiac need now do to disappear from the responding cars is walk 10, maybe 15 yards to the other side of the intersection which leads through to a wall entrance straight into the grounds of the Presidio of San Francisco. This, a very vast and expansive area with a lot of foliage is what any would be suspect needs for a successful getaway even when Police are not responding from North, South, East and West but when they are, what was a preferable escape route now becomes absolutely essential if the fleeing offender wants any realistic chance of getting away!  You;d assume that Given the circumstances as they are, Zodiac would have been in a blind panic desperately honing in on the entrance into the relative safety of Darkness.  Does He dash over there and through the wall entrance? No!  He passes up the offer of safety in the unlit shadows of the expansive Presidio Grounds where police are neither present nor heading in favour of walking down Jackson Street’s sidewalk under the street lights with a street that Police Cars will no doubt be responding along and if the cops don’t see Him on the street, then anybody out walking around that area will, not to mention the dozens and dozens of people in the houses that are dotted all along His route of escape!

Him staying on the lit Streets where any police car responding can see Him, citizen walk right by Him or countless Resident’s peering or stepping outside see and get a good look at Him, all these things equate to Zodiac running a gauntlet needlessly. He never made it down Jackson to the next intersection of Maple and end’s up walking straight into the headlight beams of a responding marked Police Patrol Car. Yes, Zodiac got away that night but it was down to His extremely good luck, and not Judgement!  If His judgement is impaired, along with His decision making ability, then what was inexplanable, suddenly has an explanation.

To use a quick analogy. . .

If Your stood waiting to cross a road and the man next to you look’s right then left before stepping out into the path of a Bus going 40MH then your likely to be shocked and confused as to why He stepped out in front of that bus, a bus that You yourself clearly saw coming! I mean, you saw it clearly, it’s difficult to miss a huge metal rectangle on wheels going 40 Miles Per Hour with two big bright lights mounted on it’s front! The Man next to You must be a complete idiot who wasn’t paying attention, you likely conclude. If a third party came up and told you He has severely impaired vision and can’t see anything at distance with clarity, then once again what seemed to be the most illogical thing you’ve seen with no explanation, suddenly makes far more sense now, now that You know why He did not see something that You Yourself couldn’t fail to miss.

Cognitive Problems after Traumatic Brain Injury: Based on Official Research by TBI Model Systems:

After brain injury, a person’s ability to process and understand information often slows down, resulting in their having problems with:

  • Being slower to react. This is especially important for driving, which may become unsafe if the person cannot react fast enough to stop signs, traffic lights or other warning signs. Individuals with TBI should not drive until their visual skills and reaction time have been tested by a specialist.
  • Being slower to carry out physical tasks, including routine activities like getting dressed or cooking.
  • They may have difficulty planning their day and scheduling appointments.
  • They may have trouble with tasks that require multiple steps done in a particular order.

Disinhibition also plays a role in your Actions, Behavior and Your Overall Personality being effected or changed drastically:

 In patients disinhibited behaviour is accompanied by irritability, egocentrism, childishness, stubbornness aswell as tactless, aggressive and abusive behavior.”

Zodiac shows these traits over and over again in his letters. Here are just a few examples:

  • Egocentric:  “The police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them”
  • Egocentric:  “The reason I’m writing to the Times is this, They don’t bury me on the back pages like some of the others.”
  • Egocentric: “Like I have always said, I am crack proof. If the Blue Meannies are ever going to catch me, they had best get off their fat asses + do something.”
  • Egocentric & Childish: “I enjoy needling the blue pigs. Hey blue pig I was in the park — you were using fire trucks to mask the sound of your cruzeing (sic) prowl cars.”
  • Childishness: “Hey pig doesn’t it rile you up to have your nose rubbed in your booboos?”
  • Tactless: “In answer to your asking for more details about the good times I have had in Vallejo, I shall be very happy to supply even more material.”
  • Irritability:  “I have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me.”
  • Aggressive & abusive: “PS. If I do not see this note in your paper, I will do something nasty, which you know I’m capable of doing.”

Secret Pal & Greeting card 2013

Above: Two greeting cards sent by Zodiac with the captions ‘From your secret Pal’ and ‘Sorry to hear your ass is a dragon’, both showing the senders childish and tactless humour.

Disinhibition Continued…

In psychology, disinhibition is a lack of restraint manifested in several ways, including disregard for social conventions, impulsivity, and poor risk assessment. Disinhibition affects motor, instinctual, emotional, cognitive, and perceptual aspects with signs and symptoms similar to the diagnostic criteria for mania. Disinhibition is a process, of whatever aetiology, which results in an individual having a reduced capacity to edit or manage their immediate impulsive response to a situation. Disinhibition is a common symptom following a physical injury to the brain, particularly to the frontal lobe and primarily to the orbitofrontal cortex.

Common Misconception!

 I have personally seen many people use Kane’s Brain Injury as grounds to rule Him out as a serious Suspect citing the obvious (as they seem to believe anyway) retarded like individual who can’t tie His own shoe laces let alone plan the complex Homicides such as they seem to suggest Zodiac’s Kills were seen to involve. This is, put simply, a complete Myth. The truth is that ‘Brain Damage’ is not a recognized diagnosis in Neurology. Brain Damage is a blanket term used for the Overall General term for a whole range of specific injuries.   The reality and truth is, as discovered in researching the level of impairment seen in frontal deficit:  ”

. . . “An interesting phenomenon of frontal lobe damage is the insignificant effect it can have on traditional IQ testing. Researchers believe that this may have to do with IQ tests typically assessing convergent rather than divergent thinking. Frontal lobe damage seems to have an impact on divergent thinking, or flexibility and problem solving ability. There is also evidence showing lingering interference with attention and memory even after good recovery from a TBI (Stuss et al., 1985).”

The fact is, a Criminal Associate of Kane’s spoke to a reporter who was writing an article on Kane’s latest Civil Court Case and they said: “I’ve seen several Civil Suits brought against the Defendant, and My feeling is that He will once again get off this latest Charge like He has the other Civil Actions that brought charges against Lawrence. The  Defendant has an excellent knowledge and understanding of the Civil Law which He’s used to beat all the cases I have seen brought against Him.”

Ataxia Motor Function and Apraxia Speech Disorders:

Acquired apraxia of speech (AOS) is a treatable neurologic, sensorimotor speech disorder that occurs in adults following Brain Illness or Injury.  Apraxia is a general term. It can cause problems in parts of the body, such as arms and legs. (Again, Don Fouke described the man he saw walking away from the Paul Stine murder scene as ‘Stumbling along, a lumbering walk with a limp’). Apraxia of speech is a motor speech disorder.  It is caused by damage to the parts of the brain that are involved in speaking,  and involves the loss or impairment of existing speech abilities. The disorder may result from a stroke, head injury, tumor, or other illness affecting the brain.Apraxia of speech can be mild or severe. People with apraxia may have: Inconsistent errors

Treatment For Apraxia of Speech:  Rate/Rhythm Control.

Rate- and rhythm-control treatments, such as metronomic pacing and metrical pacing, involve manipulation of rate and/or rhythm to improve speech production or reduce symptoms of AOS.  Rhythmic-control treatments usually have involved slowing the rate of speech production in speakers who already exhibit a reduced production rate.

Metronomic Pacing Treatment.

In metronomic pacing, the speaker produces speech at the rate of one syllable or movement per beat of a metronome. Typically, the beat has been set at a rate significantly slower than the speaker’s habitual rate of speech.


Lawrence Kane, aka Lawrence Cane died on May 20, 2010 at the age of 86 in Nevada. Kane was laid to rest in Northern Nevada’s Veteran Cemetery.

Lawrence Cane Grave


So, can I tell you I know for fact Lawrence Kane was The Zodiac? No,  certainly not!

Would i advise readers to dismiss all other suspects based on the above article and my opinions? Again,  I would answer with a very strong ‘No’.

I have authored this page and laid out the case against Lawrence Kaye aka Kane, it’s up to you the reader to form your opinions and come to your own conclusions.  I am not writing this page with any intent to ‘Covert the Masses’ as it were,  I have just put together everything I have been able to get from Official Channels via FOIA etc, along with help and support From Harvey Hines Brother Oliver, and His Son Destry.

Whatever your opinion and/or conclusions are, good, bad or indifferent, after reading this site,  I hope you found the material written here useful and I hope you enjoyed reading & know now the basis for, and why He does, make the Zodiac Suspects Top Five.



Watch out for the Upcoming Episode to be ran on The History Channel on Suspect Lawrence Kane. The series will run for Five weeks with as many Episodes and is entitled ‘The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer’.  I was consultant for The Episode featuring Lawrence Kane because of, in large part, this page you are reading here.

A discovery that aired in one episode is this photo of Lawrence as a younger man. This photo taken of Larry was taken at the time He joined the U.S Navy Reserves in 1943 during WWII…


If you enjoyed reading this page, found it’s content useful or beneficial then I would highly recommend you visit WordPress site Authored by Galaxie500 at the following link/web address:


I want to take a few lines here to acknowledge several people, people who without their help, input and support, this page wouldn’t have been possible:

 Many many thanks to:.

Sandy Betts:  Without you and your help, I don’t think I would have succeeded in securing Lawrence’s full arrest record via the FOIA. Your help with this and other things I am extremely grateful, so thank you.

Oliver Hines, your willingness to contact me and send me Harvey’s full 120 page report is a gesture I cannot thank you enough for. To have your approval on what is written here means everything to me and makes all the effort and researching worth it.

Destry Hines:  To personally have your nod of approval on what I have written here is important to Me and, once again, thank you for your help and material you have given to help.


Online User: Galaxie500: Credit where Credit is due, Forum Member and Online User known as Galaxie500 has made some really interesting discoveries in the form of Old Newspaper reports, article and even one marriage & a divorce Certificate.

Speaking of Miss Betts, T.Y for the many things you sent me which arrived via AirMail. This leapt out at me as soon as I glanced at it. Decade of scrutinizing in/over Z letters then knowing his unique writing style & print is almost second nature so this, in my opinion, was penned by None other. And yes, I still believe Sandy the author wrote this about Myself as per the opening sentence. “Sensitive, Mysterious, Extremely Brilliant. . . ” (Just joking, BTW)



 In July of 2015 two positive things happened. The First, Harvey Hines Brother, Oliver, came across Harvey’s full and complete 120 page report on the Zodiac Case and Suspect Lawrence Kane & took time to upload and send the entire report to myself for which, Oliver, I appreciate beyond words.

The Second Positive? My most recent FOIA came back in which I had asked for the release of any and or all suspects listed in the document (seen below) when the privacy laws and Data Protection Act  no longer are applicable to them (ie…They are deceased.)  There are Nine listed redacted Named suspects in the original public release, now, for the first time and exclusively, here are three of these names….

FOIA Resized




 PS, If clicking the above document does not allow readers to see the names clearly then Email me and i’ll send a cropped excerpt or full page re-size version to reader via email.

 Update: Watch this Space. . .

In December of 2015, I sent a third Freedom of Information Request asking for the redacted name that appears in an FBI file to be released, a name that the document states is the name of a person who was Identified as the murderer of Paul Lee Stine and ID’d by none other than a witness at the scene in Presidio Heights. Below is a copy I received from the DOJ in reply to my original request in which they released the name or Robert Hale West, a named suspect in the same document but not the suspect ID’d by witness:


UPDATE: June 7th: FOIA request: Successful! 

FOIA Page Two Edit01

 The above FOIA has been successful in getting the name and address of the man that a witness Identified as possibly responsible for Paul Stine’s murder. The Suspect was Identified as Xenophon (No E at end of Xenophon, its Misspelled in the Document above)  L. (Lusby) Anthony. He resided at 3218 Jackson Street, San Francisco in 1969.

Anthony would have been 38 in October of 69. This, as it turns out, is right in the Don Fouke “Thirty Five to Forty Five years of age” Suspect estimate.

Don Fouke commended for ‘Brave Actions’

D Fouke Clipping

Quotations. . .

I sometimes look out of the window and wonder just how close we’ve come to him at times. We rattled so many cages and kicked so many bushes along the way. We must have been near to him at least once!”  Capt. Ken Narlow.

He is obviously an intelligent individual. He knows that eventually he will be taken into custody. So it would be best that he give himself up before tragedy is written in blood.” Attorney General Thomas C. Lynch.

“It is because of this case that I developed stomach ulcers. I cannot get away from Zodiac it seems. . . and I don’t think I ever will.”  David Ramon Toschi  (RIP Dave.)

“The San Francisco Police could have caught Me last night if they had searched the park properly instead of holding road races seeing who could make the most noise. I enjoy needling the blue pigs. Hey pig, I was in the park and You were using fire trucks to mask the sound of your prowl cars.”  Zodiac then made a prediction that sadly, to this day. is true and accurate when He boasted:

 “The police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them.”  

In Memory of Officer Eric A. Zelms.

I often find myself wishing for the sake of Eric Zelms, that on the night of Oct. 11,1969 there was no blunder in Suspect Description as Black instead of White Male. The reason for this is simple in that maybe, just maybe, when you mentioned the name of Eric Zelms today,  people may have respond with: “Eric Zelms….Oh Yes, I know! Wasn’t  He the Rookie City Cop that apprehended California’s Infamous Zodiac Killer?” Sadly however, this was just not meant to be.

A Senseless, Cowardly Act!

Eric had no way of knowing it, But at the very moment He and Don Fouke encounter The Most dangerous man in California & probably the entire Country, Eric has less than three months to live.  After coming face to face with a ruthless and armed Zodiac Killer and surviving without a scratch,  it seems almost anti-climactic that just Three Months later in the early hours of News Years Day,  Zelms should be the victim of a senseless act of cowardly murder.

 It began when Eric and His Patrol Partner were on break in a diner when the sounds of Glass breaking came from outside. Eric rushed outside to investigate, His colleague oblivious to the events outside the Diner, He’s in the Men’s room answering the call of Nature. Eric quickly observed a front shop window has been smashed at the front of the Second Hand Store right next to the Diner. Eric was seen quickly assessing the situation before telling onlookers to ‘Stay Back’ and then climbing up through the broken window and into the shop’s dark display room.

 An awkward silence fell over the scene. Then Eric was heard Identifying Himself:  “Police Department! If you in here, come out now and do it slowly with your arms in the air……” And it was then that a second voice announced: “Ok, Plase Don’t shoot, I’m here and  I am unarmed Officer” as the voice stepped out from the shadows grabbing Eric’s full attention, His weapon trained directly on this man in front of Him. Eric couldn’t know this was a ruse to divert His attention and Gun over in one direction as a second assailant stepped out from the shadows to violently punch Eric, a blow that caught Him completely Off-Guard sending Him reeling a few steps backward.  Despite this blindsided and unsuspected attack,  Eric managed to stay on His feet. However, before He could  regain His composure, both men converged on Him.  Struggling to overpower Eric & achieve the upper hand while outnumbering Him Two to One, they still could not manage get the better of Him until, in the struggle, Eric’s Revolver is lost and tumbles to the ground. One of the two violently pulls away from the struggle breaking free of the cop’s grasp and wastes no time in retrieving Eric’s Service revolver from the floor.

 Witnesses would later report hearing Two muffled sounds, similar to firecrackers. A few seconds thereafter,  The Police Officer who went in the shattered window, came staggering His way back out through it clutching His Chest and said to the onlookers: “Get My Partner, I’ve been shot!”

Those were the last Six words Eric would ever say. Eric then collapsed in among the shards of broken glass on the sidewalk where He died almost instantly.

  Zelms News Headline

  Eric was survived by a Wife and their infant Son.  He was was just 22 years old.

 Rest in Peace, Officer Eric A. Zelms.

Eric Zelms

Officer Down Memorial Page, Eric Zelms:


Let Justice be Done, Though the Heavens Fall.

  A Latin Maxim in Law that signifies a belief that no matter the circumstances and/or the consequences, justice must be done even if the Heavens fall as a consequence.

No matter who Zodiac is/was, Kane or another, I hope one day soon that Justice is found for David Faraday, Betty-Lou Jensen, Darlene Ferrin, Celelia Shepard & Paul Stine

For as Neil Armstrong once said in a speech at the White House that can be applied to this case. .

“To YOU we say – we have only completed the beginning.  We leave YOU much that is undone.

There are great ideas undiscovered — breakthroughs  available to those who can remove one of truth’s protective layers.”

Thanks for stopping by and please feel free to comment below both positive and/or negative comments and observations Accepted and published.

Page information here researched, written & published by Alex Lewis.

All Rights to page and Information on this page are reserved and owned by author.

Anyone wishing to contact Me can do so via Emailing Me at the following Address: and please put the subject as RE: LAWRENCE KANE to ensure I don’t overlook/miss the email.

Thank You for stopping By.


  1. Just uploaded the page with two messages on you sent me Sandy.

    May I have permission before adding on site?


  2. sandra betts says:

    Alex, I read that Don’s father in law was Welsh, perhaps the Zodiac resembled his father in law? It would be nice to see what he looked like? I had a situation once when I was asked to pick up someone who was Irish from the SF airport, for a Zodiac task force meeting.  That is a huge place with hundreds of people. I had never seen this person before, all I knew was that he was from Ireland and was Irish.  I walked through the crowd and spotted someone I thought looked Irish and asked if he was Shaun, he was. I am Portuguese and many times have spotted people who were. I do not look Portuguese, so no one would be able to guess that I am. But there are characteristics of many groups that are recognizable. 

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Not but seriously though Sandy:

    How can you discern possible Nationality simply by looking at an individual? I understand Don’s a trained observer but there’s no training as far as I am aware given by any U.S Police Academy or Agency that trains it’s Officers in ‘How to make the impossible, possible!’

    You can’t just look at somebody and determine “Ah-ha! Welsh!” The same way you couldn’t look at an individual on a street in Los Angeles and know or have gounds to believe: “Ah-ha! Chicago Native!” Not possible unless Don was offereda course in the art of trained observing as practised in Voodoo.

    But seriously, I know Dons reasoning or his basis for making the statement, that being the Un-Sub’s Broad and heavyset build, but that isn’t logical either & I myself am evidence of this fact! Anyway, maybe He was asked about Nationality and rather than say “No idea, couldn’t tell by simply looking” he felt pressured into offering something opposed to nothing and made an ‘off the cuff’ statement of possibly of Welsh descent


  4. The alternative ending to Finchers ‘ZODIAC’ director’s cut: Eight years old witness in shooting of Zodiac identified Presidio as possible scene of ‘End game’….


  5. sandra betts says:

    LOL, Hugs to you my dear friend.


  6. “I would guess blue would be his favourite color. That is the color most men like.

    Lady Betts, Miss…. You are engaging in that which is commonly referred to as:


    Similar to our friend, Donald A. FoukeOff, who stated without any justification nor rational…

    “If I had to classify him into a group. . . . I’d say He may have been of a possible Welsh ancestry.”

    . ? ? ? ^ ^ ^ ? ? ?
    . Don. . . How?? Why??

    Anyway I, as it happens, prefer the color Red. (Sarcastically said with mischievous grin on face) …

    By the way, have you cracked the last code I sent you?

    My shoe size is….



  7. sandy betts says:

    I would guess blue would be his favorite color. That is the color most men like.


  8. Yes Hun, but while I understand me being the ‘Go to guy’ for all things relating to Kane, there are certain questions I simply cannot answer. If you asked me what was Lawrence’s favourite colour, I’d have to reply with a “Ermmm. . . Pass, next question please!” Response. 🙂


  9. sandra betts says:

    Did you know that Kane’s father was a shoe salesman?


  10. Hi Mel… While there is much I can tell you about, or that relates to, Lawrence specifically, I can’t tell you what His shoe size was sorry, that’s not something recorded as a matter of record that I’ve come across at least.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Sorry Sandy, check your mail now and you should have email from me. Apologize for the delay.


  12. sandy betts says:

    I am worried now, because it has been over 24 hrs and you haven’t sent the email. Did you change your mind?


  13. sandy betts says:

    Where are you? I am waiting for your question.Looked in spam and you aren’t there either. My FBI friend and I meet often to talk about the case. He is up there in years, so please don’t take too long to contact me. ( So am I for that matter LOL)

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Blimey…That was quick response lol. I am heading over to AOL shortly & will email you. Thank You for the super fast reply.

    Speak soon.


  15. sandy betts says:

    I received your message and have sent you a email


  16. Hey Sandy, I been thinking recently about something You had told me a while back that a friend of yours who was also either with or was a former FBI Agent friend of yours & a statement He made to yourself about The Zodiac.

    Could you Email me please at My AOL Address? Cheers Hun.


  17. sandy betts says:

    Police mistakes can’t change the Zodiac’s DNA, lets hope that they do get a full profile. Kane was a rather small man, I have no idea what his shoe size was, but for sure he could not be the large man (and I use Man loosely )at Lake Berryessa. He was more the size of the person seen on Jackson street. If and when they did a autopsy on Kane ,they usually take a blood sample I thought? His blood type will also be in his military papers. More than likely they can figure out Zodiac’s blood type? That could be something they could use I would guess? We could get the results of the DNA sometime this June! My suspect has already high tailed it to Los Angeles, to be closer to the boarder perhaps?
    VPD I feel has made a terrible mistake in announcing the new DNA test being done to try and solve the case. Paul Holes and his group, did it the way that VPD should have done it.

    If Zodiac is still alive and I believe that he is. Giving him a heads up, could cause him get rid of evidence that he may have of other murders that we don’t know about.
    He could go to a country that will not extradite, or he could kill himself? So even if they get a full DNA profile and trace it to Zodiac. He could be long gone by the time they get that information. If Zodiac is alive does anyone think he will sit and wait for LE to knock on his door? I don’t think so.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Melanie says:

    What was Kane’s shoe size? If I remember correctly we know zodiac shoe size. It would be nice if they could find some dna somewhere and do a comparative analysis… But I am doubtful we will ever have any conclusive dna on Z too many police mistakes.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. sandy betts says:

    I guess from the outside looking in, it is pretty funny. I have to laugh sometimes to keep from crying.
    Your statements are very funny and I get a good laugh. But when it is all said and done, I am terrified of my suspect who I am very sure is the Zodiac. He may have known Kane, just not sure? He looks enough like Kane to be mistaken for him, but about 15 yrs younger.


  20. Good God Miss Betts please don’t do that again! I was drinking my coiffed reading your comment thinking ‘OK, yes that’s interesting. Cross hairs huh, yeah it is a shame it is no longer there anymore burnin…..*** COUGH AND CHOKING ON COFFEE*** then fell off my swivel chair on wheels!! “He was fu*#^*g what!!
    That’s it now Miss Betts, all I can envision now is ‘The Rocky Horror Zodiac Killer. . Zodenfurter!<br /


  21. That’s very true Walter there does seem to be Two schools of thought or Two different camps to settle in, The First seems to agree and endorse zodiacs own opinion of himself and say He is, to quote Zodiac Himself, “Too clever for them” and place Him atop the list of Criminal Geniuses.

    The other camp won’t have any of that talk and will say that He is not a Worrhy Criminal Advisory for Dave ‘Dirty Harry’ Toschi nor anywhere close to a criminal mastermind but actually will be of below average intelligence, a disorganised serial killer, who’s ability to spell basic words is badly lacking as is evidenced in words like curious and front.

    I personally think He is somewhere in between the two. He is far from a Genius Criminal because anyone arguing he is will have to tell me what other criminal Mastermind and Genius they know of that hung around the scene so long that police began responding and closing on the area before He walked straight into the headlight beams of Don Foukes patrol car.

    People who suggest Z was just on a win streak as far as luck goes have a point yeah, but then them who would use Zodiac being prone to misspelling common words as a point to show he is a mentally challenged dyslexia prone dimwit are, in my own personal opinion anyway, not near to an accurate describing of Zodiacs intellectual functioning, eaither. I am pretty convinced, as are many other people far better qualified and able state than myself, that they suggest the mis-spelling of simplistic words like Kid as Cid, Victim as Victom etc is no genuine spelling mistake at all. Those who are titled as experts suggest it’s actually not a mistake but is, to the contrary, very deliberate and the writer is doing this deliberately & purposely.

    I think the fact Zodiac repeatedly misspelled Paul Avery as ‘Paul Averly’ is an example that you can point to and say he’s doing that deliberately because he underlines a part of Pauls name, from L in Paul to Av in Averly. Plus He spells words incorrect then correctly in the same letter. The double s fondness seem purposeful and deliberte in His spelling of the singular word ‘Christmass’ to form two words of Christ and Mass. He spells bus correctly one time, then adds the extra S another to misspell bus ‘buss’ and Cryptographers seem to agree that it’s their opinion that the Author of the Ciphers (408 specific) would deliberately misspelled words in the decoded message because it would and did serve a purpose, that being to make decoding it that much harder than it would be if all words within it were spelled correctly.

    To know which camp Zodiac falls into, either/or, maybe somewhere in the middle, We would have to know who he was first to know with any certainty. Until then, behavioural Science, circumstantial reasoning and educated guessing….that is all that we can do.


  22. sandy says:

    Alex. you mentioned that the note you say is a Zodiac note written about me, could have been written by a third party? I saw him starting to write that note at the bar where I worked in Oakland. The bar was at Pier 29,at 300 29th ave Oakland Ca. It caught on fire several yrs ago and is no longer there. It is too bad , because the suspect scratched his cross circle logo on the large window over looking the water.
    He was dressed as a woman that night , believe it or not, I actually sat with him and we talked. (He only whispered )


  23. Walter says:

    Very good page. Very well researched. Just wanted to add that it seems there are two “intelligence” camps on the Zodiac. One who thinks him clever and the other a bumbling oaf. I believe the latter. Of the 4 known Zodiac kills only one is half-way clever, Lake Berryessa (with the mask and “escaped inmate” ruse). What convinces me he was unintelligent was after the Paul Stine murder he stopped killing and bragging the way he did before. If he did keep killing and bragging (Lake Tahoe and so forth) it wasn’t the same techniques and open taunting as before. I.e. he ran and hid. Although I am also of the camp that he was known to LE and because of the embarrassment he would have caused someone he was made to disappear.


  24. Barbara says:

    Very well wrote


  25. Very Interesting G, indeed! Seen as there is only one Klein, Lawrence listed under that Borough in 1924 that matches one of Kane’s known, more regular used DOB’s then, I think We can assume with confidence that is Him. As such, I shall change My original assumption/opinion and say due to what You sent me in the email, April 29, 1924 is elevated higher and above the April, 26,1924 alternate.

    Always happy to change My mind and/or opinion when evidence comes to light seemingly suggesting A is likely to be correct over B C & D!

    Thanks Galaxie, the more facts, or substantial evidence point to a fact, that wWe can lock in . . . better it is for clarification for researching Kane and His History.


  26. Galaxie500:

    Ok Cheers mate, Nice One! Will head that way now & have a look. 🙂


  27. Galaxie500 says:

    Hi, Alex. I recently came across a document that has some bearing upon the current topic of discussion. When you get an opportunity, check your inbox over at ZKM.


  28. EDIT: This is reposted from below to here as it is the appropriate reply section.

    Well firstly, I agree with both Yourself and G-500 that we can’t point to one DOB and say definitively “That one there is His true DOB, the rest are false.” However, I Myself, (and I am simply speaking from Personal Perspective \ POV here), I differ in opinion from Galaxie500 and whereas He believes the most likely actual DOB for Kane is April 29, 1924 I tend to lean toward His actual DOB as being: April 26, 1924.

    Now I don’t claim to be more likely to be correct and will and do admit happily that Galaxie500 is just as likely to be correct as to the true DOB because I can see the grounds for His opinion ie, Lawrence used that DOB for SS applications and other official things. I base My assumption/opinion on the April 26th of 1924 being ‘probable’ or most likely to be His real one basically on two things:

    Firstly, The FBI. They have Him as ‘Kaye, Lawrence. B. 04/26/1924.’ This is, after-all an Official Record via Official Agency that itself has access to numerous Database’s & Record Indexes that we, Joe Public, do not.

    Secondly and finally: The US Navy + The State of Nevada have, while listing Him under a differing Name of ‘Cane, Lawrence’, they have His Memorial as & with the same DOB of Apr. 26th, 1924.

    But again, G500 is just as likely, if not more so than myself, to be correct.


  29. Well firstly, I agree with both Yourself and G-500 that we can’t point to one DOB and say definitively “That one there is His true DOB, the rest are false.” However, I Myself, (and I am simply speaking from Personal Perspective \ POV here), I differ in opinion from Galaxie500 and whereas He believes the most likely actual DOB for Kane is April 29, 1924 I tend to lean toward His actual DOB as being: April 26, 1924. Now I don’t claim to be more likely to be correct and will and do admit happily that Galaxie500 is just as likely to be correct as to the true DOB because I can see the grounds for His opinion ie, Lawrence used that DOB for SS applications and other official things. I base My assumption/opinion on the April 26th of 1924 being ‘probable’ or most likely to be His real one basically on two things:

    Firstly, The FBI. They have Him as ‘Kaye, Lawrence. B. 04/26/1924.’ This is, after-all an Official Record via Official Agency that itself has access to numerous Database’s & Record Indexes that we, Joe Public, do not.

    Secondly and finally: The US Navy + The State of Nevada have, while listing Him under a differing Name of ‘Cane, Lawrence’, they have His Memorial as & with the same DOB of Apr. 26th, 1924.

    But again, G500 is just as likely, if not more so than myself, to be correct.


  30. sandy betts says:

    I received a email this morning showing a post by galexie500, but I can’t seem to find it here?So I copied and pasted it below.

    Response to Alex Lewis:

    There are several ‘correct’ Dates of Birth for Lawrence. For Example, when reading the opening description of Harvey Hines Report, He states His suspect is, quote: “Lawrence ‘NMN’ Klein. DOB: April 29, 1924. Other DOB: April 29, 1922.” End quote. According to the FBI Official Records, Klein/Kane has a DOB of April 26, 1924. So … Continue reading Lawrence ‘Larry..

    “I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 .”

    This is the same date that he used on his SS application and two marriage licenses (one from 1945, the other from 1959.) I’m inclined to believe that this was his actual date of birth.

    Another curious tidbit is that Kane, in his later years, sometimes listed his birthday as Nov. 01, 1930.

    Harvey told me that Kane also used 4-22-24 and 4-24-22.This is the first I heard that he also used Nov 1st 1930, perhaps some wishful thinking?
    I remember listening to Kane talking to someone named Martin from the TV show 20/20. Darlene’s sister Pam did a 3 way call to Martin and asked that he play it again for her, so I could listen to it. His voice was very much like one of my callers, except that I could hear a slight trace of a NY accent. Most people wouldn’t notice it, but I recorded it and played it many times to hear anything unusual in his voice. There was also a very slight lisp.

    On the doctors office paper that Kane filled out , is a very good sample of his handwriting.. The date for that billing was July 7th 1995. I sent a copy to Alex for his records, along with Kane’s finger prints that law enforcement said they couldn’t find.

    As most of you know , I believe that there were more than one person involved in the Z crimes, Kane could very well be the main part of that group.On I received a post from a Larry Kane asking me to stop posting about him. I printed out that post for my records.

    I have to document everything,because it is too hard to believe that a grown man would think to do some of what he has done over the years.A lot was very child like, like writing all over my car. When I reported that to my local PD , the officer commented” What adult male would think to do that” ?


  31. galaxie500 says:

    “I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 .”

    This is the same date that he used on his SS application and two marriage licenses (one from 1945, the other from 1959.) I’m inclined to believe that this was his actual date of birth.

    Another curious tidbit is that Kane, in his later years, sometimes listed his birthday as Nov. 01, 1930.


  32. sandra betts says:

    I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 . He used so many different birth dates , I think he forgot when he was born?


  33. galaxie500 says:

    “so it’s not exactly clear”

    As the city of New York has strict policies regarding the release of vital documentation to the public, it’s doubtful that we’ll ever have a definitive answer to this question. I do, however, note that Kane’s date of birth is consistently recorded as April 29, 1924 on documents ranging from 1941-ca. 1960. Not that this proves anything, of course – he frequently provided demonstrably false information about himself on these very same documents (he often took liberties with his father’s name and place of origin, for example.)


  34. sandy betts says:

    Well you are probably correct Alex LOL. And as far as R Graysmith is concerned , he did say that Zodiac may not have been Art Allen and could be someone we have never heard of. That part was correct. Bowart, Narlow and Toschi , did like Art Allen best as a suspect. The sad thing is that they never stopped thinking he was, even after proof of DNA and prints showed he was not! I have a friend who believes William J Grant was Z, when the bloody cab print proved not to match Grant. My friend said it didn’t match because Grant used some cut off finger to leave a false print. People who have suspects have blinders on when it comes to proof that their suspect is not Zodiac. If anyone could prove that mine is not, I will be happy to know it. I just want who ever Zodiac is caught, even if he isn’t my suspect and I am sure you feel the same way.


  35. “Secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hard working + aggressive. . .”

    I think Zodiac must have been giving you this communication Sandy in direct reference of Me, this makes complete sense because Zodiac no doubt would observe the Welsh effort and use responsive words and phrases like the ones we see here with most notable and obvious descriptive match to Myself being “Extremely Brilliant…”

    See Hun, us Brit’s are far too modest and humble, are we not?
    🙂 Hehe


  36. Graysmith, or Grey-Area as I now refer to Him as due to that being far more accurate a description of where the truth is in what he says and writes, this interview He gives here is the reason nobody has to try to Discredit RG by making Him look stupid cause in this interview He seems to need no help & is doing a wonderful job of that all on His own.

    Exhibit A: Presenting to the public a bag of complete untrue bull shit, passing it off in statements of fact. Statement of Faff, that’s what it is!


  37. Well I won’t pretend to be even an amateur Sherwood Morill, nor a questioned document examining supremo but what I can profess to be is someone who has spent countless Hours looking at, reading through and even once wrote a thread over Mikes site in regards to the pressure point ink points of the individual letters as they ae formed etc so when I say ‘I Know’ the printing of the Zodiac’s intimately. . . That is absolutely what I know! I’d even feel confident enough to correctly distinguish a authentic Zodiac written letter from a traced extremely close copied fake.

    I don’t know who gave You that note Sandy, maybe it was delivered by a 3rd party ‘On behalf of. ..’another with that other being The Zodiac, or certainly the same individual who penned the Letters to The Chronicle, Times, Examiner etc. That short complimentary acknowledgement Sandy I would say, without any hesitation or doubt, came via the same hand who would often open His other not so complimentary letters with “This is the Zodiac Speaking. . .”

    Now Me personally hun, if I received a Halloween Greeting Card like Paul Avery was sent by the Zodiac saying “Alex You ache to know my name. . . So open and see inside!” Then “BOOO Alex, You are dead!” I would be writing back “No I ain’t, I’m on a 747 leaving the Country, and ehhh, Goodbye!” Lol.


  38. sandy betts says:

    Thanks Alex, I didn’t know what Z’s writing looked like when that particular note was given to me by the writer. I kept it because I was very flattered by the idea that he felt I was brilliant LOL.It was yrs later that I thought it looked like Z’s writing. It was given to me by the man who was dressed so nicely at the restaurant where I worked in Oakland Ca., named Pier 29. I do remember he had brown hair but I do not remember his face at all. I would love to be hypnotized, I might remember something very important to the case? The other note i sent to you, was looked at by a few so called experts. One said that it was too much like the Zodiac’s writing to be from him.It wasn’t done by a copy cat, because my friend saw my suspect write that note at Lyon’s restaurant Antioch Ca., around 1987. He made sure that everything known to be in Zodiac letters, was put in that note. I think he thought I would recognize the writing, but I didn’t at that time. Looking back , he wrote that note telling me to get the Zodiac book by Graysmith, so he could start his mind game with me.That book actually saved my life!I was able to recognize who I believe is the Zodiac because of the descriptions Graysmith put in that book. My stalker came into my job at Pier 29 on Jan.16th 1988. He was with a group of people and was celebrating a anniversary.He made sure that he wore clothes just like what K Johns said he wore the night she went for a ride with Zodiac.Even the very shinny shoes. A male friend of mine followed that man out to his ca,r to get me his license plate number. Eight months later on my birthday, my friend was stabbed , disemboweled and left to die in Oakland.I am s.ure it was because he followed my suspect and gave me the plate number.Another friend who ran the plate for me was shot at on Mothers day 1988.I have no doubt that I have crossed paths with Zodiac.Being a waitress living in Napa and working in Vallejo in the late 60’s , the odds are pretty good!


  39. Alex Lewis says:

    There’s everything rite down to the unmistakable three stroke Letter ‘K’ in the message. “Secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hard working + aggressive. . .” is the opening two lines of the message I refer to Sandy.


  40. Alex Lewis says:

    You say also You don’t recall what He physically looked like, only that He dressed very smartly. Try and remember Hun cause theres no doubt in my mind that handwriting is the print that came from The same Hand that wrote letters “This is the Zodiac Speaking”


  41. Alex Lewis says:

    Sandy, having researched this case to the extent I have, I, Like Many others and probably includes yourself, can and would be able to spot and pick out A Zodiac handwritten addressed envelope in among 100 other non Z Envelopes. As such, the page You sent me that you wrote “This was given to me at the bar where I worked…” That message is, to Me and in My opinion, unquestionably written by the same hand that penned the Zodiac letters. Who gave that to you? At which Bar?


  42. sandy betts says:

    I am just happy to be able to be of help.No need for a refund.If I find more information on Kane that I have in one of my many boxes , I will send them to you. I have a better set of his fingerprints in another box. What do you think about Kane’s handwriting I sent and how he lies about his birthday?
    Not sure about how good the new Zodiac television show will be? I understand that the producers won”t have access to information from SFPD or Vallejo? That leaves only Napa and Lake Tahoe?


  43. Alex Lewis says:

    Hi Sandy. Firstly, thank you for the documents u sent via post, received them around 5 days back. The envelope states it cost you $5,10 to send me that which, as I said before u sent it I will refund you if u wish. As for the post above, reply to that when I get time but for now just wanted to let u know I received what u sent me 😁


  44. sandy betts says:

    Alex, Kathleen and I both picked out the same picture from Harvey’s picture line up. She picked him from the 2 hr ride she took with her abductor and myself from the man who kept following me and trying to force me off the roads late at night. The picture I picked out was also a match to the man I got away from in Vallejo the winter of 1968.You have done a wonderful job with your investigation of Kane.


  45. Barbara says:

    Well wrote alex


  46. Alex Lewis says:

    Possible He and A Co-Conspirator were involved in some snuff movie making spree. There’s some weird people out there who’s pay shed loads of cash for a real snuff film. Obviously, these are ‘Society’s Freaks’.

    If You assume Lake B was a lights, camera and Murder scene filmed from a second location by a second person then surely all the Zodiac murders would have to be, or at least very likely to be, carried out in the same vein with same motive? Maybe that’s the reason Me Z had to go and end up one block further at Cherry when He said originally ‘Maple’. . . The cameraman was shooting scene two at a second street?

    But then at BRS it would be pretty useless filming without artificial lighting cause all You’d essentially see is muzzle flash after muzzle flash with little else due to the pitch blackness. Same with LHR.


  47. Sandy Betts says:

    That is if you believe that the three 8’s were really Taurus signs. I think that the three 8’s were meant as the eighth letter in the alphabet H. As in Ha Ha Ha.
    Or another clue to the RH at Riverside.

    I just read that there will be a Zodiac TV series starting soon, the new Zodiac movie will be out on June 9th. The movie is based on the theory that Zodiac wore his costume to hide his face, because he was being filmed. That is something that I have theorized for many years. Ken Narlow thought the same as I did. I wonder if the writer for this film read the message boards and got his idea from message board posts?


  48. LT says:

    All of those dates would still make Kane a Taurus…


  49. Alex Lewis says:

    There are several ‘correct’ Dates of Birth for Lawrence. For Example, when reading the opening description of Harvey Hines Report, He states His suspect is, quote:

    “Lawrence ‘NMN’ Klein. DOB: April 29, 1924. Other DOB: April 29, 1922.” End quote.

    According to the FBI Official Records, Klein/Kane has a DOB of April 26, 1924.

    So it’s not exactly clear. I tend to use the FBI Official DOB for Him. He’s also buried as ‘Lawrence Cane: B. April 26, 1924 – D. May 20, 2010


  50. LT says:

    I think you mentioned that this suspect, Lawrence Kane, was born on April 27th. It was mentioned in Robert Graysniths book about the Zodiac that he often used the astrological symbol for Taurus in his letters or ciphers. This birthdate would make Lawrence Kane a Taurus which it was thought would be the sign of the Zodiac killer.


  51. Sandy Betts says:

    Kane did work in real estate that is a fact. I met someone who knew Kane and verified that he worked in real estate. I also found transactions of Kane’s, showing a sale to a couple from Davis and where they moved.
    My suspect is like Kane’s clone, so much so that it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that Kane didn’t die, but faked his own death.Because I still see the man who stalks me who looks just like Kane.
    His printing is a match to Zodiac’s and he talks as if he is reading in a monotone voice.He has the barrel chest and his shoe size is 10 and a half. His hair was brown and curly in 1968,wears glasses, hazel eyes, slightly paralized on one side of his face.Scars along his jaw line like K Johns said her abductor had.


  52. Alex Lewis says:

    Personally speaking, I would imagine the Not Knowing who killed Donna, when they did it, How they did it, and why they did it is far worse a fate than actually knowing what happened to Her even if the murder specifics are heart breaking to be aware of to Her Family. Even if knowledge of how a loved one died is knowledge that is heart-breakingly painful to know, it is still preferable to knowing nothing at all because then, everything is possible, every conceivable scenario visited as A ‘What if’ as to her last hour on Earth.

    As utterly deplorable, inhumane and downright sadistic the details of Cecelia’s last Hour is to know the details of….Cecelia’s family know that She is not suffering somewhere being held captive, and they have that place that they can go to morn Her, the spot they know Her mortal remains are located, if and when they may wish to do so.

    Donna’s family have no such small a comfort to go and remember her at the place her body lay, Her killer has robbed them of that little comfort. How any Human Being can sit back and watch a Family in absolute torment over not knowing where their loved one is and what their fate was and care absolutely nothing about that families suffering but get a kick out of their knowing all the answers because they are Entitled to Abduct, Assault, Murder and then Conceal their act and victim’s remains….Not something I remotely recognize as belonging to the same Human Race that I myself do!

    Empathy they know Not, Sympathy & they are estranged, Compassion is in exile and The ‘Do unto others’ thing is only for everyone else not them.

    We call that: The Sociopath and/or Psychopath. Them who Choose to see others as objects and without feelings. The sooner We as a species can rid ourselves of them who think and act like the Word only came into existence so that it may revolve around them, the much better and more highly evolved We’ll be!


  53. Alex Lewis says:

    Firstly, thank you for the compliments.

    Secondly, You asked: “have they found Donna’s Body?” If not Her remains, then maybe any trace of what happened to her? The Simple and Short answer is: No.

    She left the Sahara Tahoe Hotel late in the early hours and just vanished off the face of the Earth. No witnesses from that night nor colleagues on duty with Her have come forward to say they saw Donna Leaving the Hotel that night, whether she was with someone or alone, and if She seemed distressed etc.

    There is a rumor I’ve heard on a few Chat Boards that A Friend or Colleague of Donna’s is said to have observed Donna Leaving Work that night in the company of a White Guy with reddish hair in a crew cut and Horn Rimmed glasses but that just sounds too convenient to Me in the description Donna’s Friend/Colleague is claimed to have given of the man with Her. It sounds like someone who knows what Zodiac was described as looking like and is using that known Z descriptive detail to assign to a Mystery White Male, intending to imply almost certainly “Donna was abducted/Left willingly with, not just an Un-Sub WMA, but The Bay’s very own: Zodiac Killer.


  54. jeremy says:

    Great site here! Thanks! Kane definitely is a good suspect in the Zodiac case. He was a weirdo and he had a rap sheet pretty long for this and that, as you show here. Great work! He seemed to be a con-man and he has all these consistent charges every couple of years up until 1968, about 4 months before the 1st known Zodiac crime on Lake Herman Road. Then, bam, as you can see in his report, he goes “under the radar”. Very odd to me being that if he indeed was the Zodiac, the murderer of the Lass girl, or both, than this would explain the fact that he kept off the police radar from 1968, until a freaky illegal cable hook up charge in 1980. That is one large gap and is inconsistent to his prior arrests of every couple, maybe every few years up to 1968. Kane seemed to have charges for peeping tom and prowling stuff and he did live very close to the Stine crime scene at the time. The Peeking Through The Pines Zodiac letter written to the paper/police is eerily similar to where Kane moved in 1970 to the Lake Tahoe area. Lass went to Tahoe, and I believe Kane followed and she was murdered, right? Did they find her body? Not sure but Kane was a great suspect in that Lass case, and with his brain injury plus his con artist ways and being he was odd, he makes a good suspect. The descriptions in some of the crimes kind of resemble him…age, hair color, glasses, his different walking pattern etc. Zodiac seemed to kill around places with names of water. Ironically, he moves to the Lake Tahoe area in 1970, a few months after the last known Zodiac crime in SF and than the Lass girl vanished. I think Kane even worked right down the hallway from her at one point in 1970. Something like that. Kane could be the infamous Zodiac Killer. Let’s just say, he does make an interesting suspect! Harvey Hines did a great job at putting those pieces together on Kane. Great site you have. Thanks. Enjoyed reading it and Kane was a goofy, oddball con-man shyster type of guy and may well be just the guy, The Zodiac Killer. These things on Kane may well be more than a coincidence. Or not.


  55. sandy betts says:

    I think it would be a good idea to compare the Kane prints to the ones on Hartnell’s car. The fire at HH was also right after Pam and I went to talk to Harvey about my suspect and to see if he was Kane or not? I picked out the arrest picture because that is exactly how my suspect looked. I told HH to give Kathleen Johns the same photo line up as me, She also picked the same picture I did HH told me. I found out that she was in San Jose from one of the detectives at SFPD and I told HH to go there and talk to her.
    Everything was around that time frame and then the fire.

    When Zodiac goes into a home he hasn’t been known to disrupt anything. He only gets what he wants done taken care of and leaves. So I am not surprised he grabbed the Kane files and set them on fire. I didn’t know HH had any other files other than about Kane.

    That reminds me of what he did in Martinez to Daniel Williams. He didn’t notice anything out of place , but there was arsenic in the soft drink inside of the refrigerator. Zodiac was smart enough to not let Williams know that he had been in his home.
    Zodiac had phoned Williams10 times, warning him he would do something to him and he did. He also said he would go to the school for a victim. And would kill the lady in the blue house.

    William’s described the voice to a tee ! Only he though Zodiac had a rag in his mouth, but that is how he sounds, like he has food or something in his mouth or a weird drawl, it is hard to understand him at times.
    One day I will put all of the phone calls I received form the man claiming to be Zodiac onto one tape.. Right now the calls span over many years on many tapes. I do have a tape of Kane’s voice talking to 20/20 TV. and it is very similar.


  56. Alex Lewis says:

    Good job you had pointed out the prints I have uploaded above because they are the Latent Lifts from Bryan Car Window found and lifted Sep.28th 1969.

    And no I don’t think Destry told me about Harvey’s House fire, He may have done but know I came across it in HH report because it happened just after Harvey came back from confronting Kane in Tahoe. I remember reading it because Harvey said He was out with Destry who was only young then and I think, almost sure HH said that Destry had noticec as they were walking toward the house that smoke seemed to be coming from a window.
    HH ran into the house and upstairs to find no accidental cause but sitting slap bang in the middle of The Bed was the files and facts etc all relating to Kane.

    I think He said the message was clear being nothing was vandalized or drawers turned out ion the floor etc, just one single set of specific Docs o fire on His bed, the docs about Kane.

    But anyway, prints above are the K’ Ghia window latent lifts. I’ll re-name them correctly when I got 2 minutes. 🙂


  57. sandy betts says:

    I do recognize “Eden Bower Lane” but forgot that it was in Redwood city. I knew it was south of San Francisco . It wouldn’t surprise me if Larry used a drivers license with Irving’s name on it, because his Ca. license was taken away.. I saw two Calif. license that belonged to Larry ,which he got with in a couple of hours of each other, looking totally different in each picture.

    Just prior to 1972, I was asked by a man with a brown crew cut, not sure if he had on glasses or not? Who came out from a employee door in a casino at Lake Tahoe. The man told me he could show me a machine that pays off every few minutes. He asked me to go outside and across the street with him. I didn’t go, but I will always wonder if that was Kane or not ? The man wasn’t a large man, probably about 5ft 8 165 pounds.

    I looked over this thread and saw that you have some prints. I am confused, were those the prints off of Hartnell’s car, or are those Kane’s? The ones I have of Kane’s are all 5 of his right fingers taken by police, he had small fingers.


  58. Alex Lewis says:

    Sandy, in regards to your commenting. . .

    “I didn’t know that the car Kane had last, had both his name and Uncle Irving. It was Harvey who told me Uncle Irving had a car lot , I think it was in Burlingame?”

    Irving Allen Klein Held a High position in the Company ‘O.K.Manufacturing Company, which was located at 1101 Bransted Road in San Carlos. As of 1976 He drove a Datsun Calif. Plate 734PYQ which was Registered and showed belonging to Irving Allen and Lawrence Steven Klein respectively. The DMV showed that both Lawrence and Irving had listed the same address of 1033 Eden Bower Lane, Redwood City, CA.

    Irving Klein was issued A Citation (Citation No. T266593) on April 13 of 1975 at 12:45 pm on Interstate 80 at approx. Four Miles East of Truckee. The Ticket was issued by The California Highway Patrol and the officer that had Cited Irving Klien had added at bottom of the Citation “Mr Irving Klein is a Government Contractor.” It was also noted that Irving had the aforementioned address in Redwood City but also used another address of P.0 Box 699 Truckee, CA.


  59. sandy betts says:

    Thanks Alex, It was Harvey who told me that Kane used the name Kent B. Williams. I found one in Walnut Creek. I thought that was interesting , because my sister lived there and she thought she saw my stalker down town Walnut Creek back in the 90’s. That was the year that I started my investigation into Kane. I was able to find some things that Harvey hadn’t found. Like the business he was in partnership named ” Allied Aluminum”, with a Carl Sapia. Kane was suing Carl and Carl had a very bad “accident” during the trial. Kane won something like $12,000 and a golf cart that belonged to Carl.

    I didn’t know that the car Kane had last, had both his name and Uncle Irving. It was Harvey who told me Uncle Irving had a car lot , I think it was in Burlingame? I took notes when I was at Harvey’s home, because he had so much to tell about Kane. He showed me the pictures of the sticks and stones in the woods. I went there looking for Donna’s grave.
    Did his son tell you that a few days after Pam and I went to see his dad, that someone took a few shots at Harvey and tried to set his house on fire? That was told to me by Pam.

    I still have Kane’s finger prints that LE said they couldn’t get, if you want them now that he is dead, I don’t think I can get into trouble for sharing them with you? It has a huge red stamp on it, saying I would need permission to show them to anyone! If they take me away will you bail me out? LOL

    Hugs to you from me.


  60. Alex Lewis says:

    I have never personally seen Kane using the Alias of Williams but I know if you say you know He did then as I said before, I know that if you say or state something then you’ll have a good & valid reason to do so.

    The only reference to ‘Williams’ I can think of is Kent Williams, owner of the Sierra Club which Kane used as an Address on occasion.

    PS – It may also be of interest to note that the man who first discovered the ‘Donna Lass Grave-Site was a Mr Otto Fredericks who approached & told Kent Williams that He had found a ‘Grave Site’ which I find interesting because if I came across that ritualistic looking stone arrangement I may think of possible Devil Worship Site etc but not assume it to be the burial site of someone.


  61. Alex Lewis says:

    No Hun, He and that Uncle both showed as Co-Owners or Registered Owners when Harvey was given the plate of the Vehicle Kane was l;ast known to be driving & then had the plate ran through DMV. Showed Two Co-Owners of Lawrence Steven Klein & Irving Klein both at same registered address.


  62. sandy betts says:

    I thought that he used the middle name of “Irving” after his uncle who lived in South San Francisco ? That uncle had a car lot that Harvey felt Larry borrowed some of those cars.

    The uncle was Irving Klein.


  63. Alex Lewis says:

    There is One other Alias that I Myself only came to know of fairly recently and that’s the Name/Alias of ‘Larry King.’

    As for a middle name, Harvey Hines first refers to His suspect in His report as exactly this…: “Lawrence (NMN) Klein.” NMN, or ‘No Middle Name’ is specifically how Hines refers to Lawrence so, I think it’s safe to assume, Lawrence had No Middle Name. Hines does, however, point out that despite Kane having No middle name legally speaking, He sometimes did make a claim to own one. Lawrence ‘Steven’ Klein was the only example or name Harvey lists as one of Larry’s Aliases.

    I personally wouldn’t be any good at assuming Identities, false Names and ID’s for each because upon being asked for My details by police on a routine traffic stop I would immediately forget who I was that day. ‘Alex…..Ander…..Yes, Alexander R. Louis, that’s Spelled: L.O.U.I.S.” then I’d hand Him my Drivers Licence showing ‘Alan P Lewis’ before suggesting “Ohh yes. Funny the things you forget isn’t it, Officer?”


  64. sandy betts says:

    I am not Alex, but I do have a lot of information on Kane. He also used Williams for his last name.

    The man who has stalked me over the past 47 yrs,I was told was Cane by Harvey and by Vallejo PD, was spotted in San Francisco stalking my adult granddaughter, last Sunday at about 11 am. She took his picture which you could tell he didn’t like.
    I guess that he didn’t think she would recognize him sense he hasn’t stalked her for about 15 years , or she didn’t notice him when he was ?

    Harvey did not make up anything about Cane, he told what he knew to be the truth. It was never about money! How sad that people would think that about Harvey.


  65. Emanuele Ciantò says:

    Hi Alex. Do you know of other aliases Kane used that we do not know? (other than Barton, Cane, Kaye, Klein….etc). In particular I need his middle name.


  66. Alex Lewis says:

    Why wouldn’t we know this if it did in fact happen, many will ask? If this witness confirmed that yes, that’s the man who I just watched exit and leave the cab via Cherry, why wouldn’t we know of his immediate arrest? Well, most would argue that “Police never mentioned arresting anyone so that couldn’t have happened!” I’d respond to that with “Well they didn’t tell you anyone had identified a suspect as the person responsible either and so shall we say this never happened also even though it did according to a Memo footnote to the FBI?”

    I’ve said this for a long time now…. Brace yourselves for that Name! If it’s released, which I am not holding my breath it ever will, that name may likely stun and absolutely shock those who have had a passionate involvement in the case both professional and amateur investigators. And when that initial shock starts to dissipate, maybe we’ll understand why it was that the suspect ID’d as Zodiac by a Witness that night never had publication or acknowledged.

    I have also been absolutely certain Sandy that Zodiac’s threat of wiping out of A school bus was not specific but metaphorical and was directed at the specific school aged witness that ID’d Him in the Murder of Taxi Driver. He, Zodiac, was never threatening a school bus load of kids, but simply threatening ‘A’ Kid. Zodiac kinda acknowledged in His own declaration later on that He was never going after A School bus in literal terms and chastised the police for even thinking that is literally what He meant by slamming: “If you cops think I was going to take on a school bus the way I stated I was, you deserve to have holes in your heads.

    Controversial I know, but then again, I am controversial!


  67. Alex Lewis says:

    I’m still around, Zodiac hasn’t come to try & silence me yet which I am not happy with! Lol.

    Just messing. If I do post these days, it’s usually over at Richard’s ‘ZodiacCiphers’ website. I haven’t been posting much Hum because you can only go so far with the information we have relating to this case and then, barring a new lead, scientific breakthrough or new evidence found, there’s nowhere to go with it when you feel you’ve done all you can with what’s available to you. I spoke to an Agent at the FBI a few days ago regarding the Status of my pending Freedom of Information Act request in which I again petition them to release the name of the man that their own report states a witness identified someone as the man He saw murder the taxi driver. I basically wanted the assigned reference Number for my FOIA request so I could track it myself as they didn’t initially give one to me. Anyway, long story short, the agent said, after I’d given him the request title and date of sumbittion that He had checked and that He could confirm that the FOI Request I made has been assigned an agent at the Dpt. of Justice so that He/She may look into and ensure that no Privacy Laws will be breeched if they grant the request which is a official way of saying they are checking to see if He’s dead before releasing His name. As you know, The privacy law that protects the identity and rights of individuals is in force only for you when alive, they cannot be enforced and are not applied to a deceased person or persons.

    So in a nut shell the Agents words were “It’s (The Request) is in the initial processing stage with a case officer at the DOJ and you will get a response from them to let you know the outcome no matter what the decision is.”

    So as said hun, at present, I simply feel that there is nowhere to go with this case as it stands and new evidence or information is needed to kickstart new interest and for me, as you yourself know from my telling you on several occasions, I am of the opinion that that name hidden beneath the redact in that FBI document is potentially much more relevant to this case and it’s solving that many others seem to wan to give it. Yes, eye-witness reliability is known to be unreliable when remembering what someone looked like or pick them out of a line up but this witness is specifically referred to as “Witness in murder of taxi driver Identified *redacted name* as possible subject in this matter.”
    I think, and this is just my own theory which I cannot give you proof to show is accurate, but I think one of the cops that night not only did stop Zodiac, but detained Him on the street and a radio call was patched through to Officer Frank Peda who was talking to witnesses at the scene asking Peda to ask the witness could He pick the man out if He saw Him again and when the witness said He/She could, Peda was asked to bring that witness around to Jackson & Maple where they had a suspect detained.

    Controversial I know, but then again, I am controversial!


  68. sandy betts says:

    I am very worried about you WC, you haven’t been posting , please send me an email !


  69. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Yeah, they just use all kinds of ad hominem attacks on Harry Hines. When all else fails, try name-calling! Are they correct, though, that Harry Hines was the one that brought Kane to the attention of VPD or was he a POI even before the Lass disappearance? I know he lived in SF near where Stine picked up the Z. Does he have any connection to Vallejo or Napa–or Riverside?


  70. Alex Lewis says:

    You are being rhetorical and not wanting me to answer this non question I assume?

    Money making scheme: Yes, that is true. The man that lives in the sky was paying him a wage to fly and drive all over and his hotel bills. I mean whatever you do, don’t ask them for proof of claim or evidence of something these people are saying…..just accept their word as gospel.

    The reaction to Kane as suspect for Zodiac is one that is kinda conistent with the anti-Kane community. It it only Kane you wil see this reaction to, and that in itself speaks to their unconscious uneasiness in their being aware Kane ticks far more boxes in the ‘Serial Killer Application forms’ than others and including their own suspect. The idea of mundane Larry Kane turning out to be behind the Ligitimate, Legendary, Universally Recognized..,.. undisputed Heavyweight Super Criminal with myth like qualities…..Larry Kane?? We will not hear it, you bring Larry Kane up and we will shout you down.

    It is a reaction so strong by certain people that sometimes it almost seems as if the people who these reactions come from are offended and take it persoally. This is very intesesting to me, Kane and only Kane gets this angered response and dismissive rejection and it’s an uncomfortable feeling these people have because Kane to them is boring, far too much like Mr Nobody they believe and they don’t want Kane to be the man behind a mythical super criminal their minds have and do now see the Zodiac as being. Yet, they know and try to ignore the fact that of the top 5 or 6 suspects, Kane fits the mould of what many accept a serial killer to be far above and beyond the other more acceptable suspects. Loner. Intellectually gifted. Lived with mother. Divorced. Egocentric. Devious and cunning. Who He is, what He does difficult to decipher etc etc etc.

    The get angry, defensive, and then move onto the most absolutely stupid and retrarded lies of Harvey making a load of cash out of it when no book was published, no movie deals offered and his financial rewards for his work in the Z case was negative. Now if you’d like to listen to Tom V, who suffered a bad knock to his head in childhood, He’d probably tell you something that only a pathetic freak like him could: “Yes, Harvey had 19 multi-millionaire investors who invested millions in Harvey’s passion beause investors, you see, are just stupid and extremely dumb by nature.”

    Compare Kane with the much more fancied and odds on favourite in the suspect race….Art Allen. Majotrity belived him to be the man behind the moniker. A teacher fired aafter his pedophilic and inappropriate attraction to teenage girls was uncovered. This is almost never seen, a pedophile and serial killer of victims aged 16 upward….they are either one or the other, never both. His bald head was a ‘hmmmmm’ point for me also, can’t make a crew cut out of baldness.

    But, Harvey’s motive. Cash? LOL. How, from what? The real and non sinister reason obviously is that Harvey simply cared about finding Donna initially which led to his overall Zodiac case lifelong dedication!

    Harvey’s brother, himself a former police officer (you know, a trained investigator that investgates crimes for a living) told me not too long ago that Harvey dedicated His life to this case because He wanted justice for the victims.

    Ohhhh, but seen as we have it mentioned, go ask Tom how much cash He’s made from his money making scheme (not one I made up in my head, either…..but a real life one) the scheme He dreamt up. Thomas smiled with a ‘cha-ching’ vision for His future website where-by He would charge every member of His website $10 each minimum before they can join in and be active posters at his message board.

    Ask Tom how much He’s made by exploiting the case, it’s victims, and His own site members? I wonder what it must feel like to profit from the death of innocent kids whose young lives were taken simply because someone else could? Maybe I can wait for the next betty-lou to be left to die alone in the middle of nowhere and I can sprint to the publishers office and while out of breath demand “Please Rush me to the Editor, I am the casher in of the murder last week by negotiating myself a book deal. To proove this, here is how I will make profit from tragedy…”

    Maybe Tom and people like him think it’s absolutely morally sound to start cashing in on this fantastic business opportunity where it only took 5 lives to make it a possibility. It’s the lowest thing a man can do in my humble opinion.

    Tom doesn’t know empathy, the two have never met. Tom does know of something existing called morality, but has no time to get to know any of these himself. He and his name are not even worth putting into print.


  71. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Gotta understand I’m a newbie at this solve-the-serial-killer-crime stuff but I mentioned Larry Kane as a suspect on another site and I was immediately attacked ferociously by some other posters who could scarcely believe my stupidity for thinking Larry Kane a possible suspect. The gist of their rantings was that the only reason he was ever suspected is because of a money-making scam by Harry Hines. True or false?


  72. Alex Lewis says:

    Since Harvey ‘s Brother Oliver was kind enough to send me Harvey’s entire report then the answer Robin, is yes.

    Donna has long been rumored to have been associated with a older, wealthy type from upscale Area of SF and it’s been assumed that this was everyone from Suspect X aka Kjell Qvale to Banking Supremo Hunter Jr. Well, here are the facts:

    Lass was employed at Letterman Hospital from September of 69 through till June the following year. In may of that year, 1970, Lass had submitted an application for employment to The Sahara Tahoe Hotel, which was successful. However, prior Her Letterman and Sahara Hotel positions, Lass was employed as a Private travelling Home Help Nurse for Dr. Frederich Reichert, who passed away Sept 23rd, 1969 which then see’s Donna apply to Letterman.


  73. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I don’t know. I’m no mob expert but I don’t see how a guy could be an FBI informant on the mob AS A CAREER. What happens is sometimes guys snitch but then they have to go on the Witness Protection Program—false identity, a house way out in the sticks, etc. But what do I know? Do you believe the story that Kane was following Darlene Ferrin?

    If you’re saying he was basically an undercover cop type—that also is a job that doesn’t last forever. After a while their face is too well known by the bad guys and they have to transfer to maybe an office job—something with a lower profile. At least that’s my understanding. I would like to stipulate that I myself have never been an FBI agent, nor an undercover cop, nor a Mafioso, so my expertise on this stuff is limited.


  74. Alex Lewis says:

    Well Kane without doubt had Mob connections, but was He keeping the code of strict silence that we know La Costra Nostra’s rule book had as Rule 1 on page 1? Well, lets just say that Kane, as you pointed out,seems to be in one State the one minute, then He up’s and leaves and shows up in another State using a different name and in San Fran He wasn’t employed officially that I can find but…

    One article that Kane is the focus of clearly states that the charges against Kaye have been dropped and the charges that do remain have been reduced because, the article states, Kane had agreed to ‘Help cops out.’ So,you ask what He did for cash in S.F etc, I have for a long time suspected that He was a paid informant for the FBI, hence his being all over the US moving continually and always changing names when doing so.
    I think the FBI knew Cane could get close to Allen Dorfman and He may have gone to Tahoe originally to try and get evidence on Dorfman for the FBI. Kane did refer to Allen as the juice in Organized Crime down there and that seems strange to say to a cop if you yourself are a genuine mob associate.


  75. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Yeah, apparently he was just a career criminal who sometimes listed his occupation as realtor or car salesman. Does anybody know what he did for money when he lived in SF? Did he actually sell cars in Alameda? I know these questions may be virtually unanswerable at this time but this is what I am wondering.


  76. Alex Lewis says:

    “So can we conclude that Larry Kane himself was some kind of low-level mobster? This would explain why he didn’t seem to have any friends—-if his friends were Mafioso, of course they have a code of silence and don’t talk to reporters, etc.”

    Well In one of the press articles above in which Kane and an accomplice steal $17,000 worth if Jewelry from a heiress it states that Kane’s accomplice is a know crime figure but for whatever reason, the paper does not publish his name. Also, I do know when Kane was spoken to by cops He confirmed he was formerly employed by Allen Dorfman and Kane said Dorfman is ‘The Juice’ of Organized Crime in NV.


  77. EndOfTheWorld says:

    So can we conclude that Larry Kane himself was some kind of low-level mobster? This would explain why he didn’t seem to have any friends—-if his friends were Mafioso, of course they have a code of silence and don’t talk to reporters, etc. Also although we know Spinelli’s primary motive for spinning his preposterous ALA tale was to save his own ass, could be at the same time he was protecting the mob from bad publicity by throwing everybody off the trail of fellow Mafioso Kane. Or more likely, if Spinelli and Kane were both FBI informants , Spinelli was making up this BS to save the FBI from bad publicity.

    Regarding Larry Kane, the question remains: “Who WAS this mystery man?”


  78. Alex Lewis says:

    Well I do know that People with Frontal Brain Injury often will prefer, and official studies have confirmed this, to write in letter form rather than to communicate verbally because they feel more comfortable because their speech is something they can no longer use to express themselves or to simply say what they want to say and so a lot of TBI sufferers revert to communicating in written form where it less frustrating and they feel more comfortable.

    Dorfman said Kane wasn’t selling real estate for him, but I don’t know how much trust I’d put in that, He was associated with Organized Crime after all. And Kane was refused a Licence to drive by the DMV in CA because He was alleged to have suffered from Seizures post Brain Injury and yet Kane had not one but Two drivers licences in the names Klein and Cane both of which were fraudulent. Well given He worked for a man who was siphoning off Millions of dollars to his Mafia associates then maybe Kane got these licences from one of these Organized Crime figures.

    And finally, is Harvey Hines story in a book? Not as we speak no, and I don’t really want to say too much here on public forums, but I happen to know that n the very near future, one may be fourth coming. But again, I don’t have specific details so whether this book is ready to be published and will ever be, I have no idea. That’s all I am really willing to say on that at the moment without speaking to third parties and getting permission from them to say anymore.


  79. Alex Lewis says:

    Mr X aka Kjell Qvale claims He wasn’t in Presidio Heights that night, nor even the United States but was, He said, in England on Business. Makes sense I suppose for Kjell to be over In the UK/Europe considering His Multi-Million Dollar Empire was made from European Sport Vehicles, and His Importation of them.

    Mr Q though has never been officially named by SFPD or the actual cop who claims this Jax and Maple encounter, Officer Armond Pelissetti. He, you see, has two versions of what occurred…. His public version, and a private one. In His on screen public version in an interview in 2007, He states this encounter happened at the corner of Jackson and Maple while Kjell was out on Maple Street walking His pooch.

    In Private conversations over the telephone that weren’t as Private as Armond assumed, but actually recorded Amend Pelissetti, I refer to Him as Amend rather than Armond on account os His amendments to this version of what happened that night where He Amends this version of events to one where He gets to said Jackson and Maple Intersection area and, looking to His left toward a Driveway and Residence, see’s Kjell standing in the front yards driveway area and, quote: “He Wasn’t doing anything, He was just sanding there. I called this guy over to Me and then Kept Him around with Me for a while where I could keep an eye on Him.”

    Armond states that the driveway Kjell was stood on was that of His own home’s. But in His reports and on screen interviews He always claims to only ever go as far as Jackson and Maple Intersection before turning on His heels and going back up the hill and this is a problem as Kjell lived at 3636 Jackson, passed the intersection a couple houses the other side thereof.

    I’ve had many conversations with Mike Rodelli who publicly said He believed X to be Zodiac and got his theory published and endorsed by some very credible people. As a result, Armond Pelissetti called Rodelli and told him “Your suspect has an alibi, He was not in the area on that night.” Rodelli had already heard the phone call Armond had had with Butterfield in which Armond stated it was Kjell He saw that night. Kjell himself got wind of Rodelli’s claims and Kjell rather oddly, or arrogantly depending on your view, invited Rodelli to come personally see him. Rodelli went to meet Kjell and Kjell looked him in the eye and said He was not Zodiac and that He was not in Pacific Heights that night. Rodelli knew Pelissetti had said otherwise to Butterfield. Pellissetti seemed upset himself that Rodelli had gone public with what He had told Butterfield in confidence because Pelissetti said of Rodelli: “If that jerk from New Jersey is right, He’s going to make me look like a right Ass!”

    Mike R doesn’t need to do that Mr Pelissetti, You do A good enough job of that on your own.

    The First Two Units to respond and arrive that night were piloted by Amendment Pelissetti and Donald Fouke-up!

    PS: You said ” Another possible sign that something was fishy was Officer Zelms getting killed soon afterward after going in alone to a burglary. This is one way cops were known to get rid of unwanted guys.”

    While I am not big into conspiracy theories, this idea may not be as far fetched as it may sound at first because the offenders who killed Eric served a couple of years then were released. I don’t remember off hand the exact number of years they served but I know it was less than 5. Five years for the cold blooded Aggravated murder (because it was in the course of a robbery) of A Police Officer! I’ve never ever heard of such a sentence for killing a cop in the course of a crime.


  80. EndOfTheWorld says:

    So in fact he wasn’t a realtor. You can’t sell real estate without a license. What I meant by people “coming forward” is that the realtors I’ve dealt with are very busy people—they’re dealing with people either by telephone, e-mail or in person all day long. So you could go to the Tahoe area and ask around and find somebody who at least remembered talking to him—to verify the slow cadence referred to by Hartnell. “Public relations officer” can cover a lot of ground. Could mean he was occupied primarily with the written word, so his weird speech wasn’t observed by the general public. And we know the Z, whoever he was, liked to write. Also I guess it’s possible that Dorfman gave him a regular job but also called on him for special assignments (eg. breaking kneecaps, killing people, etc.) when the occasion arose. Thanks for the info, Alex. BTW is the Hines story in a book?


  81. Alex Lewis says:

    The Age of the suspect is assumed, even accepted by the vast majority, to be late 20 to early to mid 30’s. Now for one moment lets forget Kane exists, lets take him out of the equasion completely.If you asked me do I agree and go along with the majority in a belief that He was in late 20 to mid 30’s? No. And that’s why I say take Kane out of the picture, because I know people will say “Well you would say you believe his age to be 35 to 45, because it fits Kane’s age perfectly.” Kane is nothing to do with it and if SFPD announced tomorrow that by way of DNA, Finger and palm prints, handwriting and shoe size that Kane was most certainly not Zodiac, then I would not change my belief in the slightest that the killer was aged 35 to 45. I know I am not in the ‘Safe Majority’ with this belief but that’s fine, my own opinion and belief is enough for me and I base it on the following:
    Zodiac’s fondness of Theater and quotes from G&S The Mikado.
    His knowledge of cipher construction/encryption, Radian’s,
    His referring to victims as ‘Kids, boy and girl, and also teenagers’ suggest He sees and refers to them as kids because that’s what they are to him as an older, middle aged man..

    The only person who described Z as young looking who did so from seeing him unmasked was Mageau, who at the time He looks at Zodiac (and only from a side profile view point) He had had what Mageau himself described as a ‘Big beaming flashlight that was blinding’ and He’d also been shot several times, once in the face. How well can you see a person when your in a dark unlit parking lot, just had a blinding light shone in your face before being shot several times before you catch a glimpse of your attacker from side on view? And when this young man rang Slover to inform Her He’d just been out doing his thing at Blue Rock, slover reported that the She could distinguish no trace of an accent in suspects voice, but that his voice was, quote ‘Mature.’ Mature voice to me does not hint at young man,but adult with fully developed deep voice as described in report, softly spoken but forceful.

    And finally, Don Fouke. Not only did he give the age of suspect to be 35 to 45, but when Toschi asked him to look at the Richmond Station Composite of the suspect (the one we all know) Don told Toschi that the man looked similar yes, but that the person was older and heavier than He’s depicted in the composite.


  82. Alex Lewis says:

    EndOfTheWorld, in regards to all the above you mentioned, I wish I could tell you I had all the answers regarding Kane’s Job, Brain Injury & the severity thereof and other such info but, unfortunately, I don’t. I can and will answer where I do know facts relating to what you ask or something your skeptical of and so Here is what I do know in answer to your posts:

    According to Harvey Hines Report, when Harvey Called Alan Dorfman to ask what Kane’s position or role of Employment was, Dorfman was extremely evasive and would only tell Hines Kane was a Public Relations Officer. Dorfman Pointed out that Kane was not a licence’d real estate Agent.

    Why would, upon learning of Kane as A possible suspect, former clients of Kane come forward to tell police “Kane sold me a property once?” That isn’t going to have anything to do with him being a potential serial killer. And that’s if they recognized his name because He was not selling real estate as Lawrence Kane but Larry Cane. If I sold you a home today as Alec Hewish then a year down the line my name flashes up on tv as Suspect ‘Alex Lewis’ you are not going to think of me as the person that the media is referencing.

    His accident that resulted in his suffering a TBI was extremely serious and, Harvey recalls, ‘Kane almost Died and required numerous extensive surgeries to repair his skull


  83. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Also if he was actually working as a real estate or car salesman he came into contact with hundreds of people from the public who got to know him somewhat, at least within the limits of the transaction. From the time it became known he was a poi of the zodiac case dozens of people should have come forward (and even now should be coming forward) saying “yeah, I remember that guy—he showed me two little houses but I decided not to buy.” Or something along those lines. If he was a salesman he wasn’t a shy recluse, nor could he have had a serious speech impediment.


  84. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I see how Kane’s frontal lobe damage jibes with the weird speech pattern and maybe the inconsistent errors. I’m not sure if a guy who talks real weird could be a real estate salesman, or an auto salesman. These guys have to be pretty slick talkers and also pretty slick with paperwork (ie. no errors). Was Kane actually a real estate salesman? Any evidence he actually sold some houses, or was did he simply list his occupation as “realtor”?


  85. Phil Tate says:

    Alex – I agree that most of the Zodiac’s murders were crimes of opportunity. To my understanding, he largely trolled for random victims. But crimes of opportunity do not necessarily denote impulsive behavior. The Zodiac planned to commit murder and searched for suitable opportunities to do so. We don’t if or how many times he searched without success. Of course he cannot plan out or control all of the variables involved (humans and murder, you know) and he must react to the situation that develops. I am not a serious Zodiac researcher as are you, Alex. I don’t know if he stopped at the the wrong location with the Stine murder and what difference that makes. That’s your area of expertise. What I can comment on in an informed manner is the neuropsychology of traumatic brain injuries, since I started doing neuropsychological evaluations with TBI patients in 1993. I can tell you how the constellation of symptoms you assign a particular subject would likely affect that person’s level of function and their ability to carry out certain tasks. I am offering you the benefit of my training and experience so that you can make the best case possible for your suspect. I’m not trying to shoot you down. I’m simply suggesting there is problem in your case conceptualization that might require further tweaking.

    Beyond the murders, the Zodiac wrote letters and created ciphers he mailed to various newspapers to create a climate of fear, which required calculation, organization, abstract reasoning, focused attention, and deferred gratification. If a person’s cognitive ability is sufficiently compromised by severe frontal lobe dysfunction and other sequelae from a severe TBI, it would have been extremely difficult for such a person to plan out all of these things and carry them out in a coherent and organized fashion. This doesn’t necessarily rule out Kane as a viable suspect. Kane could be the Zodiac even with his history of TBI but it likely depends on the level of recovery he achieved. But if he remained too compromised by severe TBI and frontal lobe injury, it’s unlikely he possessed the cognitive resources and behavioral control necessary to have pulled off the whole package: the murders, letters, and ciphers.

    As a personal anecdote, I lived in the SF Bay Area as a youngster during the time of the Zodiac murders. I didn’t think about the Zodiac too much until I saw a magazine in a barber shop that depicted the Zodiac in his hood at Lake Berryessa. It frightened me and attuned me to the climate of fear the Zodiac created, which seemed to extend to everyone in the SF Bay Area except my parents. They were not at all concerned about my lengthy school bus ride home everyday (El Sobrante to El Cerrito) after the Zodiac’s threat to shoot little kiddies as they bounced off the bus. I was a big kiddie, but I didn’t think the Zodiac would have made such discriminations when doing his thing. My parents said, “Zodiac or no Zodiac, you’re riding the bus!” Hoo-boy, those were some long bus rides. When we moved to WA State in 1970-71, I was very much relieved to leave the Zodiac and the turbulent climate of the SF Bay Area behind.

    Keep up the good work, Alex. I look forward to reading more.


  86. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Though I cast well-deserved aspersions on the efficacy of the Norwegian tycoon as a suspect, that doesn’t mean I think everything was above-board and professional in the SFPD handling of the Stine murder. To paraphrase Armand: “I’d like to believe Officer Foukes is honest, but what he says he told me is contrary to what my ears heard him say. Oh, well, it’s all conjecture at this point.” They can’t both be telling the truth, and probably neither is doing so. BTW, is there any hard evidence (ie. a paper trail) that black male was the first thing coming over the radio? Another possible sign that something was fishy was Officer Zelms getting killed soon afterward after going in alone to a burglary. This is one way cops were known to get rid of unwanted guys. (eg. Frank Serpico, who was sent in first and not backed up.) Just saying maybe–MAYBE–Zelms was getting ready to talk. I have no proof of this obviously but the amount of respect I have for the SFPD of this time period is so low that I’ll go ahead and throw that out as a possibility. It’s significant that Zelms was a rookie so in the beginning he had to go along with what the veteran officers were cooking up but probably he had second thoughts later. At the very least he would probably have a third version of what happened to go along with Foukes’ and Armand’s.


  87. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I will make a point on a different POI, Mr. X (the Norwegian tycoon). Somebody commented he might have just stepped out to see what the noise (sirens) was all about. If so, it would be very smart to bring your little friend (the dog) with you. If it was indeed a poodle perhaps he wasn’t physically overpowering or threatening but still his instinct is to protect his master and he would hear or smell any person approaching quicker than the master. This jibes with the tycoon being a very smart guy who made a fortune in a tough business. I don’t care what Rodelli’s “famous profiler” says, can he name one other very wealthy guy with absolutely no police record who was a serial killer?


  88. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I agree what is needed is an insight into the life Kane. Was he a Mafia associate? An FBI informant? How could he get his realtor’s license after a lifetime of petty crimes and name changes? I’d like to know if he jibed with the three bikini-clad LB ladies’ description—they said the guy they saw smoked a lot and was well-built. Well, did Kane smoke? Did he lift weights maybe, or do some other fitness activity? Being a reclusive weird guy living with his mother does not jibe with being a mob associate or car salesman or real estate salesman, all of which seem to indicate a more gregarious extrovert. I mean, I’ve been looking for more info on Kane but I’m not finding it. He had no friends that ever talked about him? Shoe size?


  89. Alex Lewis says:

    Yes but you have to understand, Yahweh (otherwise known as ‘God’) telephoned Thomas back in 2000 declaring He’d fed up after 2000 years of being On High and the all seeing, all knowing and informed Tom He was retiring the next day. Yahweh told Thomas that He is the chosen one to take over and become CEO of Planet Earth. God handed in his resignation and Tom stated He then took over as interim All Knowing Thing before being crowned and sworn in as The New God of Everything.

    All true!


  90. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I agree as far as the SF composite is concerned— I agree it is given too much importance. Probably because this was the BIG CITY police dept. and the BIG CITY newspaper so people tended originally to give it more credence than anything emanating from little Vallejo, Napa, Solano County etc. The kids that saw the taxi were just kids, that’s the thing. They didn’t have enough life experience to realize that they should look at the criminal in detail so they could tell the police so they could track him down. They were doing good to just make the phone call to report the crime which they thought was only a robbery. Z was in the car most of the time. It was night time. Apparently the three kids didn’t agree on what they did see so the composite was changed. So let’s put “the three kids” in a group we will call UNRELIABLE WITNESSES. Who else belongs in this group? 1) Michael Mageau—-He basically just says “Anything is possible.” For example “It was a small compact car—but it could have been a Cadillac–I don’t really know.” His physical description cannot be believed in my opinion because his brain is not functioning correctly. 2) Katherine Johns–this incident was never proven to be the Zodiac. In his letter he gave no info that only the perp would know.
    OK, now we will have another group—let’s call this group MORE RELIABLE WITNESSES. Who belongs in this group? 1) Cecilia as interviewed by Collins. You can criticize Collins for not getting the facial description better but at least he got the size. Maybe he was hoping she would survive and eventually go to an artist for a composite. 2) Foukes, He said Z was bulkier than the composite. Said he looked like Larry Kane. Trained observer, a cop. 3) the three female sunbathers at Lake Berryessa. The guy they saw acted like Z. I think they said he was moving around checking them out, then he left. Correct me if I’m wrong–I think they were sunbathing. What does this activity entail? The word “sunbathing” is almost a euphemism for the time-honored ritual of laying around semi-nude to check out members of the opposite sex while they check you out. Yeah, OK, soaking up some rays but also visually inspecting any members of the opposite sex that may enter the vicinity. LOOKING AT MEN was most likely an integral part of what they were doing—in the absence of any evidence they were lesbians. OK it is not an absolute certainty the guy they saw was Z, but whoever it was they agreed he was bulky. Also handsome. This word indicates they looked at him for a while. What might have happened is they gave Z some indication by looks or gesture that he could approach them as the horny chicks they probably were, but this wasn’t the kind of action the sicko Z was looking for, so he left. Or he might have decided 3 victims was just more than he could handle.
    So there you have it. Yes, it’s true that Z couldn’t weigh both 160 and 200 simultaneously, so we have to decide which witnesses are more credible. Bulky is more believable.
    BTW, I’m new at this so if I make any gross errors, please let me know. It’s just that I’m in a hurry to get this case solved quickly so rather than go back and double check everything I’ll just let you all correct my mistakes. This case has been going on too long already—let’s get it solved and get it over with, and move on.


  91. Alex Lewis says:

    This is what Dave Collins said Cecelia said. The same Dave Collins that later admitted that Cecelia had also told him she had seen the man unmasked and could and did Give Collins a description of what the man looked like a description which, out of Dave Collins own mouth, He said He did not report or tell anyone at the time back then because, quote “I didn’t think it was important.” Your looking for an unknown Male wanted for multiple homicides and wreaking havoc on your patch by killing at will and causing panic and fear with nobody knowing who He is and Collins says the description of this man is something that “I didn’t think it was important?”

    Q. What does the offender look like?
    A. Don’t know, Couldn’t really care either to be honest.
    Q. Well, is He White…,Black….?
    A. White…..Except when He is in the vicinity of the Richmond District’s Presidio, then He suddenly changes colour, for a short time anyway.
    Q. Age?
    A. early 20’s to mid 40’s.
    Q. Weight
    A. Fat, overweight, bulky and blubbery pot belly. Suspect must then have worked out like an absolute freak because just two weeks after this fat overweight description, He shows up in Pacific Heights and is now described as “Medium to Stocky Build, thick set guy and Barrel Chested to go with it! No wonder He has trouble walking what with the 2 week diet programme that sees him lose 40 to 60 lbs and go from a fat bloke with pot belly to a well built stocky guy who now sports a barrel chested physique.

    Q. Hair?
    A. Light brown, dark blonde with red tint going grey at the rear. Wears this rainbow in the style of a crew cut and has a widows peak hairline.

    He’d blend in and look like any other person, no wonder they never caught him *Tongue firmly in cheek.*

    In all seriousness, I make this point to warn against using the composite for a basis in anything you may be arguing. I’ve lost count of the times someone has said ‘Yes but the description is just like him’ to which the other will reply “Which description? Presidio or Berryessa?” Both of which look nothing alike. And the presidio sketch in my opinion isn’t worth the paper it is sketched on and I’d urge caution to anyone using it as a reference point to any suspects. Why? What’s my grounds to suggest this? Don Fouke’s comments. First He says “One Month later, when the drawing came out and was posted on the wall, He (sketched composite) looked similar to the man that I had seen on Oct 11.” Only similar? Don elaborates… When recalling an inaccurate claim in Graysmiths book, Don comments, “I never spoke to Toschi that I personally remember. He may have been the Insp. who came out and asked me about the composite and I told him the suspect was older and heavier” meaning older and heavier than he looks in the composite. So, if the age and weight or facial structure is wrong, what is left about the composite that we can rely on? He had Horn Rimmed Specs, that’s about it.


  92. Alex Lewis says:

    Very interesting work, Alex. Glad I found your site! You make a persuasive case for Kane as the Zodiac.”

    Thank you Phil, appreciate it. That’s all I have tried to do is make a case for Kane as a genuine Zodiac suspect.

    you’d likely have an individual too cognitively and/or behaviorally impaired to plan and carry out the murders.”

    What are you basing your belief that Zodiac planned each murder with detail on? The attacks He carried out argue for the ‘crime of opportunity’ rather than anything He did, or even had the ability, to plan for. Tell me, how does one plan to kill David and Betty at that place, or any other teens at that location for that matter, when it’s not possible to know if anyone will be at that location? I can plan all I like to assassinate David Cameron tomorrow by shooting him outside my house and that will have no impact or change the fact that I can plan for this all I like, David Cameron is not going to be outside my house tomorrow so it is going to be a complete waste of time.

    If anything, these crimes carried out by Zodiac appear to be crimes of Opportunity where the victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The offender seems to have acted on impulse more than anything because He can’t plan to kill anyone at Lake Herman Rd turn out area because He cannot know if anyone will be there and the opportunity present itself. It seems, to me at least, that He’s simply driving around with the intent to kill and happens upon a couple parked in an area that is dark and secluded so he stops. He can’t plan that, the same way He couldn’t plan to stab anyone at specific location at Lake Berryessa because He doesn’t know if the opportunity will present itself and if the potential victims can be found in a suitable place without being seen by others at the Lake, which is probably why witnesses reported seeing a man both driving and wandering around the Shores of the Lake for at least an hour before Bryan and Cecelia even arrive at Berryessa.
    There are two types of killer, organized and disorganized, and Zodiac doesn’t really fall nicely into either.

    Also, Zodiac thoroughly planned the Presidio event and this time He can tell where and when the victim will die because He picks a cabbie (probably after his frustrating effort 2 weeks previously that saw him wandering around Lake Berryessa for hours while he waits for a suitable couple to take up residence in a suitable spot.)
    Hartnell said himself it was ‘A Spur of the moment’ decision to go to Lake B at the last minute so how Zodiac can plan to attack victims at the spot He did when the victims themselves didn’t know they were going to go there until the last minute is beyond me.

    Anyway, first thing He does in this well planned scenario of the Presidio Heights murder is end up at the wrong Intersection. This is a minor thing, the show must go on! So, Z shoots Paul at Washington and Cherry instead of the planned Washington and Maple and now has to backtrack over ground he’s just covered in the taxi. But no problem, He has planned this so well that upon his escape from the scene He wilfully and consciously ignores the immediate entrance into the Presidio that is at the Cherry and Jackson Intersection knowing by now that Cops are responding (Armond said He was close to the scene when the radio call came in and that He hit the red lights and siren and responded to that corner) and instead turns right onto Jackson Street, walks down the hill passed house after house after house under the street lights before walking directly into an oncoming cop car! And this is a well thought out, thoroughly planned event is it?


  93. Alex Lewis says:

    I know what Cecelia said according to Dave Collins on the Documentary you refer to, Cecelia is alleged to have said the man was, quote: “Overweight. Bulky Looking.”
    And I’m not claiming that Kane had all the symptoms I listed above, I am simply saying these are symptoms that are associated with TBI and Larry Kane had a TBI with damage to the left frontal lobe, a lobe that controls speech and regulates limb function and therefore can effect the gait of a person. I am not claiming to know Kane had this symptom and that is why if you read the opening of the article I specifically say: “The second part of this article I will dedicate to Frontal Lobe Brain Injury (Kane suffered Frontal Lobe Brain Injury in a vehicle accident) and list the symptoms associated with people who have Frontal Lobe damage and show how they are extremely consistent with the known behaviour of Zodiac. Most of the Evidence I present here will be Circumstantial in nature.”

    Where did I say Kane had these symptoms specifically, and so did Zodiac? I only say what the witnesses reported like Fouke ‘Subject walk with a shuffling lope” and Hartnell’s “Precise cadence to his voice” etc. I say this is consistent with a person who has suffered a TBI specifically to the Frontal Region of the Brain. I don’t make the claim “Zodiac walked oddly one witness said, Kane had a brain injury with front lobe damage therefore I have solved this case, goodnight.”


  94. EndOfTheWorld says:

    To me the whole brain damage thing is somewhat of a red herring. OK, some doctor gave an analysis. So what? Doctors are not infallible–and brain damage can come and go. Larry Kane apparently worked at sales jobs which require thinking. Fact is nobody knows how much his brain was damaged. Another point—I was looking at the zociackillersite ( which they won’t let me on ) and in the WHY NOT LARRY KANE thread there is a lot of back and forth about how heavy Z is in the witness description. There was another witness often ignored–Cecilia at Lake Berryessa. She talked to the first LE guy on the scene before she lost consciousness and he asked her in detail about his weight. This is on the documentary on youtube–the good one. She indicated he was big. I won’t try to quote from memory right now but check it out on the video. Out of all the witnesses she got perhaps the best look–daylight, up close, over a period of time while he approached and then did his morbid business. She saw him more than Bryan even who wasn’t looking at first. Also, apparently got a good eyewitness from the three females who were sunbathing. They checked him out well enough to decide he was good looking. They also said stocky. OK this is not definite—but I would say almost definite—more definite than Katherine Johns story, more definite than Michael Mageau who with all due respect is all over the place with his various descriptions, including a positive ID of ALA, apparently. And more definite than the kids at SF who apparently weren’t sure as the composite sketch was changed.
    PS. Maybe it was the first detective on the scene, not the first LE guy—-anyway he’s on the video.


  95. Phil Tate says:

    Very interesting work, Alex. Glad I found your site! You make a persuasive case for Kane as the Zodiac. I would like to respectfully suggest, however, that if you add up all the possible effects of traumatic brain injury you suggest plagued Larry Kane, you’d likely have an individual too cognitively and/or behaviorally impaired to plan and carry out the murders, produce the ciphers, and coordinate the campaign of terror as did the Zodiac. For example, you noted “frontal lobe damage may impair your attention span, motivation, judgment, and organizational capacity.” It often results in poor impulse control, disinhibition, impaired mental flexibility, perseveration, impaired abstract reasoning, and deficits in the ability to plan and initiate tasks. A person suffering this degree of cognitive impairment is unlikely to have been sufficiently functional to be the Zodiac. This does not mean Larry Kane was not the Zodiac. Recovery from severe TBI can be quite variable, but without access to medical records, it’s hard to determine what type of long-term cognitive deficits he might have had or to what degree he recovered. But the brain injury thing cuts both ways. The more impairments he might have had, the less likely it is he could have done it. For the record, I practice neuropsychology and have done many evaluations of persons who have suffered TBIs. I enjoy your site and look forward to reading more!


  96. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I wonder if there’s any possibility that Cane was acquainted with Arthur Leigh Allen. Allen, after all, was not a hermit and seemed to talk to people a lot. My theory is maybe the Z knew about some of Allen’s peculiarities (eg. titwillow, Zodiac watch, etc.) and from the Lake Berryessa murder (when he first unveiled the Zodiac logo) was setting Allen up as a patsy to throw LE off the track. Also, if Kane/Cane was indeed an informant it’s possible he started on this career path in the Navy. Could have been in Naval Intelligence. This for obvious reasons is not always reflected in the official discharge and other documents. Then he officially got a hardship discharge while WW2 was still raging? Somewhat suspicious and brings to mind another guy who got a hardship discharge from the Dept. of the Navy to embark on a career as a low-level intelligence operative–Lee Harvey Oswald. Was Kane known to be good at the standard IQ test? Think I read that somewhere. That’s the kind of guy the liked to pluck for intel.
    This is all highly speculative of course. 2 questions:1) Does Kane have any connection to Vallejo? 2) What did he do for a living all his life?
    Also, is there any real evidence establishing him as an informant for a federal agency?


  97. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I’m new to the case but two other websites won’t let me get on. I hope you do. Right it sure looks like Larry Kane was protected and VPD could never get his prints, right? Now LE hopes if they just wait long enough, the case will go away. Meanwhile Tom Voigt attempts to deflect all attention from LK (Kane=Crap) and has a retired SFPD cop kissing his ass on a Youtube video. Like they are real good buddies. BTW, does TV actually work anywhere or does he make a living from Zodiac stuff?


  98. Alex Lewis says:

    Yes I was aware that paitents suffering from frontal lobe damage often do preffer to communicate via written form rather than their using verbal speech. As I understand it, Their speech and ability to put sentences together is no different to any healthy Non Brain Injured person, but they find themselves knowing what it is they want to say in their mind but saying the words in a sequence to construct sentences is extremely difficult.

    Having done quite extensive research on both Frontal Brain Injury & Apraxia, Ataxia, and many other impairments following Damage to the Lobes I know that a very high number of Brain Injured paitents say Post-Injury the speech & language filter disrupted and/or not working is the symptom they find that frustrates and irritates them most. Imageine knowing you want to say ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’ and can hear yourself say it in your head but when it comes time to say what you know you can say easily in your mind, your mouth just can’t say it without fumbling, grasping or searching for a way to pronounce the word it knows how to say and remembers how it’s the easiest thing in the world to do prior to their head injury happening.

    Now as you will no doubt have noticed, I am a Qualified, Supremely Welsh Certified, Advanced Dgree Holder in the Science of…..Ermm: Brain-e-ology.


  99. Mirela Pastrav says:

    Hello, I hope I am not late for the party. I would like to point out that Apraxia is oftenly appearing with another disorder called “Agraphia” (in patiens who sufferd brain injury of the left frontal lobe). Remember those “delibertae” mistakes the Zodiac made in his letters? Well, it turns out they might have been just that, mistakes.
    A patient with Agraphia will prefer print, not writing. They will have spelling errors due to letter omissions…aaaand…this is the best part…wil have problems with homophones (words that are pronounced the same but differ in meaning and may differ in spelling like clews and clues and even victim and victom (sometimes the results can be non-existent words like Paradice, in this case the last part of the word Paradise sounds like the word dice).

    Disclaimer: any mistakes I made in the above text are not due to the fact that I am the Zodiac, but because my native langauge is Romanian.

    Thank you,
    Mirela Pastrav


  100. Alex Lewis says:

    The assumption most people seem to make is: “If I have not seen it, it doesn’t exist” or “I haven’t heard or seen any times or examples where Kane is intellectually impressive, therefore, he isn’t and wasn’t.”
    It’s arrogance in one sense because people assume that if this or that had happened, they’d have known or heard about it. Because they haven’t, it cannot be accurate. This is no different to a mentality or a belief that “The Sun does not exist between 10pm and 6am and this can be proven by my not being able to see it anywhere during these hours.”

    Just because you may not see something, doesnt always mean that it isn’t there.

    Kane is just not suitable to fill the shoes of a serial Killer many people see as A Legend, Larger than Life, a stand alone Super Criminal in the archive of Serial Killers. This is why A University Lecturer, Two Multi Millionaire’s and The Uni-bomber have all found themselves on the Suspect list. Kane is far too mundane and ordinary to allow their fantastaical Zodiac and He to be the same.

    The identity of Zodiac, the outspoken and dismissive personality on paper, was probably nothing like the persona he created for himself. Both Dave Slaight and Nancy Slover said the Man who phoned to report the murders was Soft Spoken, and Slaight stated he had difficulty hearing what he was saying when he ended with “I’m the one that did it.”


  101. Alex Lewis says:

    I believe you and what your saying. He’s not trying to de-fraud or con anyone by giving false details in this instance he’s simply used this SSN when filling out a Registeration Form for a local Doctor/Surgery office. He also used on this Reg. form the DOB of 29 April, 1924 which is again not accurate if his FBI info and records are accurate in that his DOB is the 26th of April 1924.

    Kane used so many Aliases and I’ve only recently found out, thanks to online member Galaxy, that he also used the name ‘King’ and is referred to in some places as ‘Larry King.’

    I can tell you though Enigma with absolute certainty that when I entered that X- SSN into the online SSN Death Index it recognized it, or at least part of it, enough to identify the issuing State.


  102. xEnigm4x says:

    Have a look here…it describes the Social Security Number in great detail.

    It’s all numerical…no letters. And also the 4th and 5th digit have never been 00

    Somebody forged that document somehow.

    And also shows the numbers used for each state. Notice Missouri’s numbers go from 486 to 500


  103. Alex Lewis says:

    Possibly, I am not American so I have no idea what Social Security Numbers detail. However, I can tell you this….

    Using the SSN Online Death Index, I entered X50 00 2313 and it recognised this No. and came back saying this SSN was issued by the State of Missouri.


  104. Alex Lewis says:

    No apology needed, it’s a good observation. I have always assumed or leaned toward the symbols reading ‘To Kill!’ when you rearange them. But it could just as easily be Kaye, Kane etc. When I first saw the signed symbols of the Exorcist letter my first instinct was that it looked like ‘KLEIN’ more than anything but that’s just personal preference. Good observation and thanks for the comment.


  105. xEnigm4x says:

    Just a quick observation I made about his “second” SSN, supposedly issued in Missouri.

    That’s not even a real social security number. They don’t start with letters. and the 2 middle numbers of 00 have NEVER been assigned. The second set of numbers, the 2 middle digits go from 01 up to 99, but never 00.

    Seems to me the whole second SSN is a complete forgery!


  106. anniefauxkley says:

    Additionally this unidentified female (time of death unknown she was skeletal) was found in NV wearing a bracelet that said “Valerie” and a bracelet that was a Leviathan sea serpent creature.

    Maybe she was the miner riding the Leviathan on the card and perhaps Hollingsworth’s car location was yet another hint at Leviathan being connected to Z.

    Just an idea. The bracelet always gets me. I wish they could ID her but her bones were so old.


  107. anniefauxkley says:

    Robin, this Norweigan Ski instructor? Any connection to “Norse meaning To Kill” letter? The Sla letter?


  108. anniefauxkley says:

    The assertion that Kane was not intelligent enough to be Zodiac is the precise reason he got away with the crimes.


  109. anniefauxkley says:

    “The mafia utilizes mine* drops” I meant. Apologies.


  110. anniefauxkley says:

    Robin, Perhaps Donna was put somewhere near the other girl Kane most likely left over in San Bernardino. A mineshaft. Think also about Hollingsworth’s car that was found near caves and his body never found. Sounds like a mine drop as well.

    The mafia often utilizes my e drops in cases where they don’t want bodies found.

    Perhaps they should check mine shafts in San Bernardino for Donna near the area they found the other girl? Heck, maybe Hollingsworth is there too if he is connected to Kane. The card with the miners on it doesn’t Evade me, nor the fact that one miner is riding a Leviathan type creature and Hollingworth’s car was found at Leviathan caves.


  111. anniefauxkley says:

    Could have tracked him using his Social Security number unless he committed social security fraud and changed that number.

    It’s not until you change your social number and birth records that you really end the paper trail it seems.


  112. anniefauxkley says:

    If you take the “keno” signature at the end of the exorcist letter into account:

    the K is evident but upside down

    The next character is an unfinished “A” (that can also double as an “E” once one of the extra lines is added to its side. The A or E depends on the placement of said line.

    The third character is the top portion of a “Y” and its tail is completed with the other line. It ALSO can be the corner of an “N” character.

    so far we have the dirivations of Kay, Key, Kan, and Ken.

    The dot left over might denote an additional optional letter after the 3 characters – it might indicate that one of the derivatives of E, A, Y, or N can be placed as the fourth character.

    So with that we have the possibilities of Kaye, Kaya, Kana, Kane, Keye, Keya, Kena, Kene, Kayy, Kany, Keyy, Keny, Kayn, Kann, Keyn, Kenn. And of course all these variation without the fourth character as well.

    In this we have the names Kane and Kay with multiple derivatives.

    Sorry if this has been brought up!


  113. Alex Lewis says:

    Robin, you’ve previously stated that the former Mayor of South Lake Tahoe confirmed, beyond doubt, that Lawrence Kane was working at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel at the time of Donna’s disappearance. Can you elaborate? When did He confirm this? Who was it told to? How would the Mayor know and/or remember Kane specifically etc?


  114. Alex Lewis says:

    Interestingly, Hunter and Qvale had a heck of a lot in common. Both were in the Banking Business. Both owned one or more Ranches. Both at one time resided in Pacific Heights (Hunter Jr at home on Corner of Washington & Cherry & Qvale near Jackson and Maple.) Hunter was a member of S.F’s Golf Club, while Qvale built two Golf Courses. Both liked to Ski, Hunter being a founding member of Alpine Meadows in LAKE Tahoe, while Kjell had a holiday home in Lake Tahoe and was himself a former Ski Instructor down in LT.

    All Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. Just reminds me of the claim made by Donna Lass’s friend that Donna used to go with another girl and two older men to South Lake Tahoe and do so in a private plane owned by one of the men. Donna was herself an avid skier and before she went missing was looking forward to taking time off work to Ski.

    I’m pretty sure that whoever Zodiac was, Donna Lass knew him/them. I think she may have got scared and wanted to run from what she knew He/They were and Zodiac, knowing Donna knew and was about to leave SF, followed her with a concern that she may open her mouth and as such, she became an expendable asset.


  115. Alex Lewis says:

    Robin, I was thinking the other day about The arrests and Kaye/Kane’s Prints, specifically the Request by Cpt. Conway of Vallejo PD to the FBI. The memo states that Vallejo PD have sent requests to all local Police Dpts. requesting Kane’s prints if they have them on file. They then go on to say that they have discovered that Kaye is in possession of a fraudulent Calif. Drivers Licence, a Felony Offence, and that if his prints can’t be obtained via another Police Dpt. that they plan to arrest Kaye on this Felony Offence and obtain his fingerprints that way.

    I wondered why, having discovered a felony offence having been committed, they did not just arrest him in the first place? Isn’t that standard procedure? If a cop stops you and asks for Licence and Insurance and you supply him with a forged Driving Licence which constitutes a Felony, surely you’d be arrested as a matter of corse. I don’t know about US Law specifically, but here in the UK, if yo give police false details/ID on a traffic stop and they discover it’s not your correct details, they arrest you on the spot for obstructing a police officer in the carrying out of his duties and in more serious cases, Perverting the Course of Justice. I assume that if it isn’t the same in The U.S, its at least very similar, so why wouldn’t Vallejo just have him arrested straight away? Did they even follow through on the threat and arrest him for this offence? If not, because his prints were obtained via another LE Agency, why is He still not arrested for this Felony?


  116. Alex Lewis says:

    Robin, in reply to your post:

    According to the SS application you found, the date it was filled out is Sep13, 1941…it was finalized Sep 22, 1941…therefore Kaye is LK’s legal name from Sep 22,1941?..He went into the Navy when?….

    His legal name does seem to have been KAYE yes, and that may be why Harvey and others deliberately referred to him by his alias of KANE because as the newspaper report states above, Larry Kaye had an extensive knowledge of Civil Law. Well If Harvey, or any other Lawman, Publically used his legal name when referring to him in public or on camera as a possible suspect in the Zodiac crimes then Kaye would no doubt file Civil Litigation for his defamed Name and Character, He would no doubt argue.

    In the article posted on the site above, when faced with a possible assaulting police officer charge with case decided and presided over by a single Judge, Kaye pled Not Guilty and “Demanded a trial by Jury.” Harvey could safely refer to Larry as ‘Kane’ because he knew this was an alias and not the mans real or legally recognised name.

    Where and when he became CANE I have no idea. I have not see a requested name change application for KAYE to become CANE but it has to exist somewhere. CANE was not like his alias KANE, his use of the name CANE was a constant after He left SF for SLT. He was the Defendant in a case brought against DBA Tahoe Marketing, for which he was at one time an employee. Then he was Arrested and charged with telecommunications/wire fraud after tampering with his landline’s call box that diverted all outgoing call costs to another persons phone bill. And the biggest clue of all that his legal name was changed to CANE? His burial and grave stone engraved LAWRENCE CANE.

    Navy, Served and saw active duty in 43, when did he enlist, or when was he conscripted, don’t remember off hand but will go over the things I have and find it for you.


  117. Alex Lewis says:

    No it doesn’t say the Eight year old Named the man he saw, it states he simply Identified someone that he saw committing the cab driver’s murder. When the report says identified *REDACTED* it is stating that the eight year old identified ‘That man there’ as the same man who he/she had just seen leaving the cab and it’s the police who then discern the ID’d suspect’s Name and it’s they that insert the suspect’s name into the document.

    The kid just pointed him out and positively ID’d ‘That man standing over by there’ as the person who just left the cab, and as such, police would have taken action based on this and obtained this man’s Name.


  118. Alex Lewis says:

    Basically I would hazard a guess to say I think it’s not going to be who he is, but more probably what he does (profession), or how he’s seen in society or his rank or title that may be hidden within the cipher but, for me, probably not going to be his actual name as that is simply too risky. He would surely have to know the saying that cryptography experts use as a fundamental rule of: “All codes and ciphers created by man, can be broken by man.”

    I notice in one section of the three part cipher the word ‘PIG’ appears twice once vertically, the other diagonal.


  119. Galaxie500 says:

    Regarding Larry ‘Kaye’ and his antecedents, the following URL may be of interest:


  120. Robin Smith says:

    I agree with Greg on the co-conspirator theory. The Z signature was at the bottom of the Confession Letter and the crosshairs signature was first used when?



  121. I believe the idea that the Zodiac shot Paul Stine at the Washington and Maple intersection and Paul Stine had not placed the taxicab in park, as he was performing a “run through” stop for this unscheduled fare. When he shot Stine, the taxicab motioned out of control, so the Zodiac reacted immediately, exiting the rear left passenger door and entered the driver side door, hence the reason for the deposited prints, he later had to wipe down. He then clambered over the lifeless body of Stine and had to push against his right side to access the taxicab pedals. As he clambered over Paul Stine he probably braced himself on the compartment area, nevertheless he was again seen wiping down the driver side compartment by the three teenagers later. Neither of these areas should have contained prints, if the crime happened as widely believed. When he exited the moving cab at Washington and Maple to access the driver side door, he may have injured his ankle, (explaining the shuffling lope, like a semi-limp), described by Donald Fouke later. When regaining control of the taxicab he may have stalled the engine, necessitating his touching the ignition keys and later when searching for identification on Paul Stine, he would have had to touch several surfaces on the wallet. Had he found the drivers license, there would be little need to waste valuable time tearing a section from the back of Paul Stine’s shirt. He wanted specific ID to tie himself via the October 13th letter, to this crime. But since he had now touched both the ignition keys and the wallet, what was quicker, wiping them all down or just removing them from the scene. Try holding a wallet (without wearing gloves) and wipe it free from fingerprints, you have to add more as you wipe it. He had to wipe the taxicab, as he was clearly was caught off guard at Washington and Maple and my guess is that his gloves were off at this point to facilitate his touch on the weapon, but before he could put them back on to enter the front to get his souvenir, the taxicab lurched out of control, hence all the fingerprints he later had to wipe down. Anything that was bolted down he wiped, anything that wasn’t he took.


  122. Robin Smith says:

    Barton, I see that!…Good catch Alex



  123. Alex Lewis says:

    The B in Lawrence B Klein could be Benjamin taken from his Mother Sarah Benjamin yes, but in one arrest listed on his record he gives the name Lawrence BARTON so the B could stand for this. It’s strange that all Aliases he used he did so using each more than one time, exception being Barton which he uses only once.


  124. Robin Smith says:


    Per info you’ve provided I see that Lawrence’s middle initial is B…for Sarah BENJAMIN Klein?

    and I need to mention that George Achilles Karadanis, long time business partner of Maloff, was from Martinez, Ca. I do N0t have any background info about Maloff.

    Just to give an idea about the culture of the ‘day’ up here, Lake Tahoe. The Kaiser Estate on the West Shore, Homewood, was built by Henry Kaiser…He worked X number of men 24/7 to complete the Estate so the corps that built Hoover Dam would have a place to party when the dam was finished….

    Godfather ll was filmed at the Kaiser Estate…Guess who did the dry cleaning for the movie when they were here:) Guess who got to hold Al Pacino’s coat and keep it warm between scenes!



  125. Robin Smith says:


    According to the SS application you found, the date it was filled out is Sep13, 1941…it was finalized Sep 22, 1941…therefore Kaye is LK’s legal name from Sep 22,1941?..He went into the Navy when?….

    He was born Klein 4/29/1924, changed his name, at age 17, legally, to Kaye 1941. It looks like Capt Conway in Vallejo had something there, Kane is an ALIAS

    Where did this “Kane” monicker came from? Was Kane ever a legal name? Is Cane a legal name as far as SS is concerned? and if N0t, how does the U.S. Government explain this, as he is buried in a Veterans Cemetery as Cane.



  126. Robin Smith says:

    Alex……..Vallejo’s Captain Conway states “Kaye has the alias of Larry Kane.”

    I have been going through all these N0tes of mine and N0where can I find the origin of the name Kane….SS EMPLOYESS REQUEST FOR CHANGE IN RECORDS 101 12 2950…the only place I find Larry Klein’s cursive writing. It shows a Sep 13 date…year N0t displayed.

    However, Larry Klein is changing to Kaye. His explanation is: Beneficial for employment in my field. He writes in CURSIVE that he was born 4/29/24 to Morris H Klein and Sarah Benjamin in B’klyn NY….

    It appears he uses Kaye 1948-1959 then switches(somehow) to Kane by 9-10-1961(Alameda) as shown in the full arrest History you’ve provided.

    Has anyone looked for his mother as SARAH BENJAMIN? I just do N0t see where the “Kane” name comes from. It has been said that Sarah’s maiden name was Kane but I do N0t see that anywhere.



  127. Alex Lewis says:

    “What Z did to Bryan was N0t an ‘execution’ type killing.”

    I know that, He didn’t act like an executioner No, but he came out from behind that tree dressed as one. The Zodiac of Berryessa (I say the Z because I am starting to seriously question the idea of this hooded man at Berryessa and the Lumbering Pacific Heights Zodiac are one and the same man) did not simply want to kill his victims, he wanted to torture. This is evidenced by his stabbing Cecelia in the groin and while in the act of doing so was grunting and making noises like a absolute lunatic enjoying causing such pain and carnage. He doesn’t do this at any other scene that we know of and, as one cop noted, “He doesn’t get any great pleasure from it, he thinks killing is just killing.” Well that is fair to say of Zodiac, except for his Sept 27th attack. I honestly question the idea that the person under the hood at Lake Berryessa, and the man seen by the teens and Fouke 2 weeks later are the same person.


  128. Robin Smith says:


    “Just two weeks before he executes Stine,”….he’s at Berryessa with Bryan literally throwing his wallet & keys at the feet of Zodiac and Z ‘does his thing’ and then walks off leaving both wallet & keys on the ground and did N0t take anything else.” What Z did to Bryan was N0t an ‘execution’ type killing.

    Two different styles here right? I reason these are different killers…Z’s for sure but at least two…I suspect others also as I’ve previously stated. I also am beginning to suspect the three different signatures of Z as some sort of effort to differentiate them.

    However, I must return to Donna Lass/Lawrence Kane as primary targets for my interest as I am here and will continue to roil the local turf. These SF people are necessarily involved as they were here all the time and still have substantial real estate ventures here therefore INFLUENCE.

    Remember their families still are active here. Hunter and Qvale along with our ‘local’ magnates.


    P.S. I do N0t HAVE to live here…but I’m going to:)


  129. Robin Smith says:


    It says here that the eight year old witness identified (name redacted)?

    I really feel dense N0w! because I am confused this says witness NAMED someone? or the officer knew the name of the person the eight year old identified?

    Obviously we all want to kN0w this name Alex Help I’m stuck:(


  130. Robin Smith says:

    Hey you guys…I hesitate to comment because my information is always behind the curve so to speak.

    For instance this eight year old witness that “most people are unaware of:(“…One goes about thinking and thinking and when they field their thoughts get shot down by information that “most people”, that would necessarily include me!, have had for literally years.

    Reading the old posts does N0t aide because when regurgitated one gets told that it’s a lie by someone/s well kN0wn, to the Z community, as a liar. N0t to mentioned all the peeps lurking with multiple screen names that think they are terrifically sneaky and smart.

    Anyhow heeere it is. In the day, cab drivers displayed their licenses. Usually clipped onto the front window visor.

    Coincidentally I have the same problem here with Donna Lass’ purse. Apparently missing with N0 mention of it or her license etc again…except that some time later I find that the police decided to flag it and her credit cards. Apparently N0 activity after she went missing.

    Someone. .I (ASS U ME) Z or his cohorts have gone to great lengths to confuse the issues here and that does N0t fit the profile of a man hysterical about his mother with brain damage that inhibits the ability to control oneself.

    Dare I mention it does fit the possible profile of a domineering MOTHER, if indeed that is the case. N0 information available about MOTHER KANE.

    Kane knew Hunter/Stine/Darlene/Donna and Bruce

    AS I have stated before I think more than one person is involved in Zodiac


  131. Alex Lewis says:

    Rich I myself have have commented on the licence being a piece of property taken from Stine because I, rightly or wrongly, just assumed that he’d carry it with him given the nature of his job. But you have a point, borrowing a quote spoken repeatedly by a character from the movie Chill Factor: “Assumptions are dangerous.” I was too specific in stating ‘Drivers Licence’ and shouldn’t have I suppose because it doesn’t have to be specifically Paul Drivers Licence so much as any form of ID he may have had in his wallet. Bank Card, SSN Card, membership card for golf club (just as example.) The specifics of which ID card it may have been doesn’t really matter, the question I have is why take the wallet and not use something in it which has Paul’s Name on it, like a library membership card, drivers licence etc? Just two weeks before he exectues Stine, he’s at Berryessa with Bryan literally throwing his wallet & car keys at the feet of Zodiac and Z ‘does his thing’ and then walks off leaving both wallet & keys on the ground and did not take anything else. I’ve even considered Z taking the pieces of shirt off Stine in a sick & twisted symbolic gesture that, to him, was amusing. When we speak figuratively of a person that we perceive as kind & generous we’ll often say that “He’s a good man, he’d give you the shirt off his own back.” I am absolutely aware of the initial instinctive response to the very idea of such a thing is to frown upon it and think “Why would he do that, it doesn’t make sense?” I would have to reply with “Why would he go to Berryessa dressed like a 19th century executioner in daylight hours and practically ask to be seen by a passing fishing boat? Does that make sense?”


  132. Robin Smith says:

    I hate to be so dense Alex…but if Armond Pelissetti detained white male on the steps of 3712 Jax so the eight year old witness could be brought by to look at him and see if she recognized him as the one at the cab during the murder…where were the three teenagers that called 911? Would they N0t be better witnesses than an eight year old?

    I kN0w….more questions than answers once again!


  133. Alex Lewis says:

    “This eight year old witness must have kN0wn (to be able to identify by name) Robert Hale West.”

    Robert West isn’t the man identified by the eight year old. He just happens to be one of several suspects named in that same document.
    The Eight year old doesn’t have to know Zodiac and his name in order to identify him, nor do I think that’s what happened. What seem to be implied in the report judging by the wording used is that this kid is witness to the scene/crime as it happens and observes the offender at the cab. How can I make that assumption? Because the statement suggests it by saying “Witness in murder of cab driver…”

    The word ‘Identify’ in the English language is synonyms with, and has the definition of: “To point out, to recognize, to know something by sight.

    I think, and this is controversial I know, but my opinion is that on the night itself, Oct 11, one of the first responding police patrolmen, overwhelmingly likely to have been Armond Pelissetti, wwent after Zodiac and, as Pelissetti admitted to Mike Butterfield, discovered a white guy standing on the Driveway of 3712 Jax street. Is this a slice of good luck on A.P’s part to find him there? Not at all, A.P is heading directly to that very intersection specifically in order to look on and around that driveway and his reason for this? Don Fouke. Fouke has just spoken to Armond on Cherry, this encounter happens within, what, 10 to 15 seconds tops of Fouke having passed a white male turning into that very home driveway. He simply updates A.P on his sighting, and A.P rushes off to check the front drive and area and probably fully expecting the guy to no longer be there and fled the drive and general area around that home.

    Now Armond said specifically that ‘I kept this guy around for a while keeping an eye on him.” What would he have cause to detain the white guy for and keep him there? It’s obvious why – He radioed for another unit to bring the witness who had seen the offender at the cab around from his home on Washington to Jackson & Maple and have a unit drive past and the kid be asked to look at the two men on the sidewalk, A.P and Suspect, and see if the kid can positively Identify this male as the same man who he saw at the cab.


  134. Robin Smith says:


    This eight year old witness must have kN0wn (to be able to identify by name) Robert Hale West DOB 9-2-1935…U.S. Marine, Camp Pendleton, Ca 1957-1959. Report says he should be considered armed and dangerous.

    Robert Hunter Jr was a Second Lieutenant U.S. Marine Corps during WWll.

    Paul Stine knew Kane, Donna Lass and Darlene Ferrin. Darlene, murdered by Z July 4, 1969, reportedly had newsworthy information that Stine was going to put in the paper. (Blackmail comes to mind)

    As you pointed out….. for an 8 yr old to name someone, the person was kN0wn to the child. Suspect either lived in the area and or knew the adult she was with when she witnessed the shooting. Where was she? Who was supervising this 8 yr old or was she looking out of a window nearby?

    Definitely more than one person involved here.


  135. Alex Lewis says:

    Hey Rich, good to hear from you. Apologies for the slow response. In regards to your question of “Hi Alex, do you think it is reasonable to assume that when they calculated the taxicab total, it could in all likelihood be that Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac Killer somewhere between 217 Eddy Street and Mason and Geary?”
    Absolutely. I myself have often wondered why it so widely assumed or accepted that Paul picked up Zodiac at the precise location of Mason & Geary Streets. Online ‘Crime Library’ states as if it were a known and unquestionable fact that “San Francisco cab driver Paul Stine picked up a fare at the corner of Mason and Geary Streets in Union Square headed for the Presidio,” Its stated as a known fact and that simply isn’t the case and that’s why I say on the site above ” Paul Stine, the cab driver murdered by Zodiac, is thought to have picked up his killer somewhere in the vicinity of Mason & Geary Streets.”
    As for your second point ” Does it seem likely that he would pick up a random fare, on the off chance the man wanted to go in roughly the same direction.” I have often thought about this myself, Rich. Why would Paul even stop to pick anyone up if he had been dispatched to a fare already. I’ve considered many possibilities as to why and how it came to be that he encountered Z and the likelihood of Paul just happening to stop on the off chance that the Z may have been going in the direction he was going. I think the answer may possibly be Rich, Paul knew the Zodiac. Maybe Paul stopped because Paul him knew & knew that he would be looking to go to the Presidio Heights area and the reason he knew or suspected this was where the fare was heading is because he knew him personally or, at the very least, had given him a ride from downtown to the Pacific Heights area prior to Oct 11 on at least one occasion.


  136. Also I have read on many forum posts that Zodiac took Paul Stine’s driving license. The official report states wallet and car keys. Nowhere does it say driving license and there is no evidence to suggest his driving license was in his wallet, just assumption. I have found good reason why he took both the wallet and car keys and it wasn’t for a trophy, however it relies on Zodiac not having taken the driving license. Had he taken the driving license, there would have been little reason to waste time removing the tailpiece of Paul Stine’s shirt.


  137. Hi Alex, do you think it is reasonable to assume that when they calculated the taxicab total, it could in all likelihood be that Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac Killer somewhere between 217 Eddy Street and Mason and Geary. It seems that if Lawrence Kane was the Zodiac Killer and he was out to kill that night, he would have walked east on Eddy St, to Mason and north up to the theatre district, where the activity on a Saturday night would make securing a taxicab easier. Paul Stine would be returning on from the San Francisco Airport Terminal on Highway 101 and his quickest route may have took him up Mason Street to the intersection of Mason and Geary. We know that at this point Paul Stine received a dispatch to collect a fare from 500 9th Avenue at approximately 9.45 pm, which is only 3.5 miles away. Does it seem likely that he would pick up a random fare, on the off chance the man wanted to go in roughly the same direction. The, as it turned out Zodiac Killer could have chosen to go East, West, North or South. What are the chances this fare was almost en route to his scheduled fare. Is it not more likely that Paul Stine picked up Lawrence Kane between Eddy St and the intersection and received the instructions to 500 9th Avenue shortly thereafter. The killer had asked for Washington and Maple, so he accepted the dispatchers call to 500 9th, knowing he was already en route, rather than the other way round of picking up a random passenger, on a whim, he may be going in the right direction. I believe the Zodiac Killer was already in the back of Paul Stine’s cab, before he received the scheduled fare. Picking up a random fare at 9.45 pm, with a scheduled fare in hand, seems to provide little leeway, when you consider he was murdered at 9.57 pm. This seems the least plausible scenario,and places in doubt the widely held consensus.


  138. Robin Smith says:


    I see on one of these Z sites that one of the posters went to a Sahara Tahoe 70’s Reunion last year. This reunion was organized by the Mayor of South Lake Tahoe who worked at the Sahara in the ‘day’.

    The Mayor, when asked by this poster about Larry Kane being at the Sahara, said YES…Kane was here.


    P.S. The City of SLT, Ca Mayor could be a liar.


  139. Alex Lewis says:

    You suggested: “however suppose you added something that makes people want more?.”

    No offence intended but any idea how difficult it was to get information that includes full arrest History for someone that, as Harvey Hines wrote in his report, “Attempts to hide true identity through use of several aliases & Birth Dates.” Any idea how much time & effort went into this one thing alone? Not one FOIA request, nor even two, but three submitted requests for any & all files held by them pertaining to this individual be released. Nobody knew, myself included, that his real legal name was ‘KAYE’ because He changed it legally from His family name of Klein. Kaye was the name by which He and his records were held by the US Dpt. Of Justice. That is why requesting KLEIN and KANE found no matches with the first two FOIA’s.
    The published page may appear to be a set of circumstances/facts/published Documents etc that was compiled & written over a weekend but, in reality, what you see & read above is the product of several years of effort & research. In order for a specific persons records & criminal history to be eligible for public release, you must submit proof with your request that shows evidence that the person in question who’s files your asking for is deceased which the privacy law that prohibits a persons personal data be made public can be waived. This in itself was a nightmare because your going to name the subject of request as Lawrence Kane, who was Born Lawrence Klein in NY City & is buried as Lawrence Cane in NV! I almost felt like adding a footnote stating “No Sirs, this isn’t a wind up or Joke, this man really was born in State of NY as one name, lived under 2nd different name while in State of California, before dying & intured in The State of Nevada as a 3rd identity.


  140. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you. What I have written above is based on factual evidence which I often show the evidence for by way of Official Documents, Police Reports & Links to Official web-sites. As for the Title or Page Name being plain, it was my intent for that to be the case. While I understand your point that a page Entitled ‘Zodiac Killer’ is not at all innovative nor is it a unique, attention grabbing Title. It is, However, straight to the point & self explanatory and by the title alone potential readers will know what the page is likely to suggest or imply by such a title. This page and the topic it covers, that being Serial Murder, will have a fairly specific type reader that it will attract. I could do more to pitch the page to a more general audience I suppose but the page & it’s content are aimed at an audience who have a more than average understanding of this case & it’s details.


  141. webpage says:

    I think what you typed was very reasonable.

    But, what about this? what if you added a little
    content? I mean, I don’t wish to tell you how to run your blog, however suppose you added
    something that makes people want more? I mean Lawrence Larry | Lawrence Kane
    – Zodiac Killer is kinda plain. You ought to
    look at Yahoo’s front page and note how they write article headlines to get viewers to open the links.
    You might add a related video or a picture or two to grab people excited about everything’ve written.
    In my opinion, it could bring your website a little bit more interesting.


  142. Alex Lewis says:

    “All these arrests and N0 fingerprints anywhere?? ZODIAC; COS, MANSON AND THE MOB”

    Robin if it turned out that ‘The Manson FAMILY’ were either behind the Zodiac crime, or knew who was, and not one has ever opened their mouth and told what they know of Zodiac for almost Five Decades then I’m going to personally visit Old Charlie to congratulate him on keeping this a secret and also will have to ask myself, while wearing a baffled expression on my face, why the hell wouldn’t Bruce Davis, maybe Susan Atkins, Even Manson himself offer to supply the FBI with the specific details, or the name/names of the person hid behind the persona they called ‘Zodiac.’
    Your telling me Susan Atkins reasoned before trial: “I could ask to speak with the FBI and offer to clear up 5 unsolved homicide cold cases and deliver on a platter the name of ‘Zodiac’ in exchange for a much reduced prison sentence and the only realistic chance of ever seeing freedom again or, I can simply sit here in my cell and wait to die with no possibility of achieving parol. I shall opt for the latter I think and decide to die in prison.”

    The Mafia mentality in this instance is completely relevant and accurate: “Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.


  143. Robin Smith says:

    Sean/Alex…did you ever find anything out about Donna Lass/Larry Kane/Paul Stein regards Letterman Hospital?

    Liked by 1 person

  144. Alex Lewis says:

    Well I sent two FOIA requests around the same time,one for Kane’s arrest rec. & History, which I finally got, and one for the release of the suspect named by eight year old in murder of cab driver. I got Kane’s bk, but nothing from the other request. I sent one previously requesting any and all named POI’s in that document be released & they sent me back the Doc. with one name un-redacted, Robert Hale West.


  145. Alex Lewis says:

    I can do, the date is Friday, July 7, 1995 at 12:13pm. He’s registering under one of his Aliases and false ID and Details it would appear as he has, in his own hand, given the following:

    Name: Lawrence Cane.
    Home Tel: 5886023
    Address: BOX 857 Cave Rock Villas, Zephyr Cove, NV.
    DOB: 4/29/1924.
    Age: 71
    Patient’s SSN: X50002313 (Which was a SSN issued by The State of Missouri.)
    Occupation: Retired.

    Below this is a section entitled ‘Spouse/Guarantor Information’ which Cane has left blank and then below that it asks for ‘Nearest relative not residing with patient’ and again, Cane ignores and leaves blank.


  146. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…Can you share the date on that medical application form of Larry Kanes’ ?


  147. Robin Smith says:


    Two questions nag at me: (1) When and where Sarah Benjamin Kane died (2) Was Donna Lass’ purse recovered?

    N0 0ne seems to have this info…so far I can N0t find any reference to Donna’s purse even in the PI report. I am going thru it again.


  148. Alex Lewis says:

    Know nothing of His Mother or where she lived & no idea if Larry or & His Mother were even residing in the same State let alone Condo.

    I have a application filled out by Lawrence for his registration at a medical facility in Lake Tahoe and the second question asked is ‘Patient’s Next of Kin’ and Cane lists nobody & the space is left blank.


  149. Robin Smith says:

    Alex… the overuse of the word logic, applied to insanity, is one of the reasons Zodiac remains a mystery



  150. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…Kane lived with his mother until he himself was in his 50’s?

    Do you kN0w when she died and where?


  151. Robin Smith says:

    Oh! did I forget to mention that my ex was a personal friend of this mental case.

    I knew Larry Kane was a peripheral player and one could instinctively smell foul there. But like I said, I had my own agenda at the time and was N0t paying attention to him.

    That’s part of the conundrum of the Donna Lass connection…what was she doing with this type of person unless???

    This town is full of creeps and every description there is of NASTY customers. N0t a glowing endorsement for a destination resort N0w is it.


  152. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I did N0t stalk the stalker.

    My point is, if I saw Larry Kane driving so did the SLTPD, the Sheriff and the CHP.

    There is one way and really only one way thru here, HWY 50. The Stateline divides the town and when you have family on both sides of the “line” you drive back and forth between school, post offices grocery etc two or three times daily as normal course. On Hwy 50…bumper to bumper sometimes for several miles thru the “casino corridor”.

    The Stateline being the street between Harrah’s & Harveys and Lake Tahoe Resort/motel row.

    Wars have been started in this town about licenses, you N0w have to buy a $16 pr year yellow tag if you live in Nevada and work in California…less than a mile away!!!

    This place is N0t real…Never has been.


  153. Alex Lewis says:

    Hang on, you stalked the stalker, and not in any half-hearted stalking endeavour either, but on an all out ‘Daily Basis.’ Well I applaud your obvious dedication to the craft Rob but, don’t you think stalking a man who’s officially suspected of a series of homicides and who lacks impulse control due to Brain Injury is not the best idea your ever likely to have lol? I mean if your going to start a stalking career then i’d at least begin with a sane and everyday, non lethal target. I mean Kane may have been paranoid anyway some say, and with no ability to control his impulsive desires would likely shoot you in the head first and then ask you why you are following him, lol.


  154. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I am still ‘scanning’ all these posts from years back!!!! How weird.

    I think Z knew exactly the layout of Presidio Heights and did N0t intend to ‘escape’ but intended to go into one of those houses.

    As pointed out by one of these bloggers/message boarders, Larry Kane lived in South Lake Tahoe,Ca/Stateline,Nv for 30 years. 1980-2010


    He was a regular at the Senior Citizens facility here in South Lake Tahoe Ca and lived in Nevada. 2 miles away. The senior center is practically next door to the SLTPD. “They” were obviously, ha! that word again….aware that he was driving and he just kept driving and driving…splain that!. “They” had to kN0w his licenses were forged and that he was driving illegally.

    All these arrests and N0 fingerprints anywhere??



  155. Robin Smith says:


    Do you have a photo of Robert E Hunter Jr ? All I can find is his obituary photo and he’s older and N0t recognizable, to me at least, as he would’ve looked circa 1965-70.


  156. Robin Smith says:

    Alex..what are the chances that Mr.”Q” knew Carroll Shelby?

    From the Tahoe Daily Tribune, I do N0t have the date right here in front of me:( TDT…and here’s the especially interesting part for South Lake Tahoe: In 1968, the man of muscle built and owned the first Ford dealership on the South Shore…


  157. Robin Smith says:

    I do kN0w that Lisa Maloff, wife of Robert “Bob” Maloff, is Russian… and Kane’s mother Sara Benjamin Kane was Russian. Lisa still lives in Skyland. At one time I see Kane’s address as 116 Ponderosa, Skyland, Zephyr Cove, Nevada 89448. I wonder if Mom was there?

    His father was, according to my information, Morris H Klein. Therefore I make his birth name Klein, but in this case, who the H kN0ws!…the F.B.I…that’s who


  158. Robin Smith says:


    N0w the questions remain, (1) when did Sara Benjamin Kane Klein die? (2) where is she buried? (DNA) and finally (3) who buried her?

    Since Kane/Klein/Cane was discharged from the Navy, because of hysteria about his mother and her hysteria about him, pardon the “lay” terminology. Did he ever actually serve in the Navy??

    N0w this obvious cover-up has me interested as it MUST involve the “local” person/s I am most interested in, ala Donna Lass.

    I’ll bet that the “real sleuths” just love my over use of the words MUST and OBVIOUS.


  159. Roin Smith says:

    Alex… what are the chances that Banker Kjell Qvale knew Banker Robert E Hunter Jr who possessed the 3799 Washington St building with an entrance at 222 Maple St?


  160. Roin Smith says:

    Alex…Just reading through these posts.

    Cheri Jo Bates was, according to what I’ve read, was a friend of Robert E Hunter Jr’s niece.

    Hunter Jr was the man that flew to Riverside on weekends with Donna Lass & Larry Kane. additionally Darlen Ferrin had money N0 one could explain.

    Niece was reportedly supposed to go with Cheri Jo to the library the night she was murdered and did N0t go because RH Jr was in town. RH Jr knew about the murder the next day and left town…Bruce Davis also left town immediately after the murder.


  161. Roin Smith says:

    Kjell Qvale (Banker) MUST have kNown Robert E Hunter Jr, BANKER who knew Donna Lass/Darlene Ferrin AND LAWRENCE KANE.

    Neal Olson, according to Tribune articles, demolished Christy’s Pancake House to make way for a WELLS FARGO bank in Bijou Center, South Lake Tahoe, Ca.

    International House of Pancakes (IHOP) opened in South Lake Tahoe, Ca in 1970. Darlene Ferrin worked for IHOP at some time.

    By the way…I checked this years phone book Lake Tahoe-Truckee(2014-2015) there is a Qvale listed at Carnelian Bay. N0 listing there last year or year before. I am wondering when was the last listing (in Tahoe) for a Qvale. N0t a common name. After threats he made of legal action (chilling) (Qvale died Nov 2013).


  162. Roin Smith says:

    Alex…Whatever happened to the Eight year old Witness to Stine’s Murder on Oct 11, 1969?

    That person would only be in their 50’s N0w. Oh my…is there a way to find this information?

    Can the police hide that information legally N0w?


  163. Alex Lewis says:

    It didn’t offend me, but I did think you were using the term ‘your boy’ sarcastically by putting it in inverted comma’s to patronise. Sorry, my mistake. It takes a sarcastic patronising lover of Irony like me to spot when it’s being dished out lol.


  164. Alex Lewis says:

    “P.S. I would really like to kN0w where “your boy’s” mother is buried.”

    Well why don’t you tell me, Robin? Earlier in the comments you stated that “For someone who is supposed to be so close to his Mother, he wouldn’t be buried anywhere near her.” Or words to that effect. And refer to Kane as ‘Your Boy’ all you want, I simply am not egocentric or self deluded enough to believe, or refer to him as, ‘My Suspect’ as though I have some sort of Copyright or Patent on the ‘Lawrence Kane Brand.’


  165. Robin Smith says:

    Hello SeanC…I am new here and am reading all the posts. Did you ever find anything regards Kane’s IRS taxes??


  166. Robin Smith says:

    Just a petty criminal is right!…jewelry theft, illegal phones, auto and passport fraud even the U.S. Mail is corrupted by these Mob/FBI/CIA cabals.

    The local governments and police are bribed, threatened and/or blackmailed into co operating. That’s exactly the how these people get away with all this.

    When all else fails they hide behind their families, women and children.

    Sometimes the women are worse than the men. for example Nancy Pitman, who by the way is still free and living the good life, while her victims and their families are dead and suffering.

    Steve Grogan? According to what I’ve read on these message boards and blogs is free all these years because he’s too stupid to have masterminded the murder he was involved in??? and he was good enough to tell them where the body was buried!!!

    Kane did N0t get arrested many times by accident or stupidity…he was a criminal, a pervert and a murderer. He was sheltered by the aforementioned agencies/people and he flaunted his immunity with the low lifers he associated with.

    Being in prison, is far different than jail!! and, as far as I can determine, he never spent any time in jail much less prison. How is that? all these arrests and N0t even jail time??


  167. Robin Smith says:

    Those initials are N0t even close Alex…this passport fraud issue has come up in one of the old posts…the ONLY writing inside the card is GET THE PASSPORT!…it’s one of the fold out pictures of Melbourne type cards…


  168. Robin Smith says:

    Alex,,,it has been my experience (Special Education/University of N0rthern Colorado, Greeley) that “they” “do” this “specific” wording thing (for example GRANT FUNDING) to actually hinder, outsiders, so to speak, from accessing.

    For instance every year only “certain” labels (Autism, for example, one year will show a numbers spike) only “certain” language will work and only “certain” people have that exact labels/wording immediately available to them. By the time regular Joe figures it out the money is gone and next year we will have another label.

    Government and lawyers call this maneuver “chilling” when they make veiled threats of legal action. Sometimes N0t so veiled!!!

    As for the probation records of “your boy” Lawrence, they probably matter N0t at this point, however, I thought a pattern might is painfully obvious that the FBI, CIA and others have their own agenda.

    A grain of sand will lead to the fall of a mountain when it is time for the mountain to fall. (paraphrasing from a smart person a long time ago:) Isn’t it a grain of sand that produces a pearl?

    Donna Lass, a grain of sand.


    P.S. I would really like to kN0w where “your boy’s” mother is buried.


  169. Alex Lewis says:

    Well there would have been records of Kane’s probation with his probation officer but whether the Probation Service keep records on Deceased former clients or not, I don’t know/. The probation was given as a sentence in Menlo Park, CA but again, whether he served his 2 year probation there or moved to another area and was assigned a new probation officer is anyones guess.

    I suppose you could try contacting the probation service and asking them if they have records of Lawrence Klein and give them the date, March 27, 1965 in Menlo Park and see see what they say. Can’t do any harm. I assume that his probation history and record will be available to the public now the man himself is dead just like his arrest history is. Try them and see. If they are able to release non privacy protected records then all you will need to do is prove the person who’s records your requesting is now deceased.

    When I filed the FOIA that was for Kane’s arreat history along with any files relating to his being investigated for the unsolved Zodiac case, I had given so much attention to detail as to how to word the request (Because Freedom of Information Requests, for some reason, have to be worded a very certain and specific was to be successful) that i totally forgot to add evidence that Kane was dead. Fair play to San Fran’s FOIA officer, they emailed me personally (not a standard automatic reply now, this was a real person and everything lol) and said they’d received my request and could i show prrof that Kane was dead in order for them to go ahead with the request?
    I said sure, I’ll go dig his remains up from Nevada’s Veteran’s cemetery and deliver it to the San Fran FBI Office 🙂
    No but seriously, you’ll need proof hes dead before they’ll even consider it so it’s best to contact them by phone and if they say they do have, are are at liberty to release, Klein’s probation records, then just send them a written request with a print out of this web page:


  170. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I N0ticed that the Menlo Park entry 3-27-1965 Lawrence Klein PD#5774 got 2 yrs “formal” probation. Does that mean there should be a 2 yr paper trail…I see he was in Miami, Florida 7-11-1966.

    One really interesting date is 8-29-1968 Redwood City, Ca Kane prowling offence,,,

    8-27-1968 is when Richard L Chartrand was “blown to bits” in his Cadillac in front of his Skyland Zephyr Cove Nv home…Bruce Davis always said he wanted to blow somebody up…(paraphrasing). Chartrand was then owner of Barneys Casino, from FrsesN0, as was Del E Webb, owner/builder of Sahara Tahoe opened July 4 1965


  171. Alex Lewis says:

    Robin, earlier in the comments you asked:

    “Alex…I have looked over the arrest record you have provided…TY TY. Did Larry Kane EVER spend even the night in a prison/jail?”

    Glad you asked this question, because it’s something that bothered me when I saw a two page list of criminal offences and never did the offender seem to get imprisoned. I’ve hinted previously, although have no evidence for it, that I believe Kane may very well have been a FBI informant. I mean the Law was trying to catch Dorfman for years and Kane is working for him selling real estate. Plus there is the fact that Kane is constantly moving from one place to the next always assuming new identities.


  172. Alex Lewis says:

    Who is Manilli?? Just one more of the suspects that have been put forward over the years. His name’s Fred, which is why I can’t accept he’s Zodiac. I shall be most disappointed if the legendary elusive mysterious one turns out to be called ‘Fred.’ Hehe.


  173. Robin Smith says:

    Who the hell is Manalli? LOL


  174. Robin Smith says:

    The postcard I have has Cane’s, he sent it as Larry Cane….writing on it. N0t a lot but it is his and it is N0t forced and the return address is Box 857 Zephyr Cove Nv 89448. So when was box 857 rented?..those boxes at Zephyr Cove N0w number in the 5 digits.

    The stamps are from Australia …air mail and priced 75 cents each.


  175. Robin Smith says:

    Very interesting that Kane, whose attachment to his mother is well documented as abnormal, would N0t be buried by her.

    I’m sure I have Kane’s DNA on a couple of stamps but I do N0t have the resources/contacts to follow through with any testing on, for example the “Pines” card, that was sent from, South Lake Tahoe??…I read that is where it was mailed from.

    Regardless of where the card was mailed from somebody wanted/s Z connected to Donna Lass for some reason.


  176. Alex Lewis says:

    Sent you the Donna Lass files. Check email 🙂


  177. Alex Lewis says:

    Yes if you give me an email address to send the document to.


  178. Robin Smith says:

    I think a Private Investigators’ report is probably more reliable, from what I have seen at this point, than anything “official” Are you able to share them?


  179. Alex Lewis says:

    Having re-checked the files i have relating to Donna Lass, they are not official Police Investigation files as I had mistakenly thought, but it’s the report/file created by a Private Investigator hired by Donna”s Sister, Mary, to look into Donna’s disappearance.


  180. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I sure would like to see these Donna Lass documents if you can share them


  181. Alex Lewis says:

    I have the official files and report on the Donna Lass disappearance and investigation. It is stated in this report that she had told a friend shortly before she vanished that she was looking forward to going skiing over the Christmas holidays. I forgot i had these documents relating to the lass investigation until you brought Donna’s name up. 🙂


  182. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I have looked over the arrest record you have provided…TY TY. Did Larry Kane EVER spend even the night in a prison/jail?

    Manson spent a couple of years with Alvin “CREEPY” (creepy crawling mean anything to you?) Karpis. Manson had (according to Mae Brussell )a high powered( George Shibley) lawyer visit him JUST before leaving Treasure Island. This from the transcript of the 13 Oct 1971, broadcast on KLRB Radio Carmel, Ca. Creepy was the last MOST WANTED arrested and by J Edgar Hoover personally. Leonardo DiCaprio portrayed Hoover in the movie about this. Karpis says in his autobiography that even that was screwed up!

    Did the? Does the FBI have any interest in the ZManson case?…absolutely!!!


  183. Alex Lewis says:

    Suspect X is Kjell Qvale (It’s pronounced Shell Ka-vah-Lee), born in Norway and came to the States in 1929. In 1969 He lived at 3636 Jackson St, Pacific Heights, San Francisco, CA.


  184. Robin Smith says:

    I may be wrong but it seems that the Halloween Card of 10/27/70 is the only Z communication signed with all three signatures…the circle with cross/Z/McMillian symbols.


  185. Robin Smith says:

    Well apparently I was correct about this suspect X.

    Howard Davis has made the case against Bruce Davis, Bruce was here.

    You have made the case against Larry Cane/Kane/Klein, Kane was here.

    Now suspect #3!…Wayne Messier, according to Raymond Ottoboni in his book “The End of Zodiac,” and Bruce Davis with a “hippie” girl(Nancy Pitman was with Bruce at that time) lured Donna to the parking lot and strangled her. I am N0t endorsing this book….it’s pretty awful.
    However the confession is in there full. Raymond Ottoboni repeats this claim in his book/self published “Cowboy The Legend”. Raymond Ottoboni changed his name to Gino Valentino and that is the name on the books. However I remember the Excalibur. Wayne was here, I believe at one time a security guard at Harveys Casino.

    Raymond D Ottoboni(the father) was Mayor of Colma , Ca many times and was “connected” to Mayor Alioto SF and ooops! The J Edgar Hoover/Mob bunch

    What I want to kN0w is WHO got Donna the Job at the Sahara, many many players and casino executives exited the scene within a couple of months of her disappearance. Including Kane who went to Vegas with his buddy Alan Dorfman.

    Jurisdictional Conflict Zone…made to order for these types.

    South Lake Tahoe Ca/Nv A Hot Bed Of Cold Cases


  186. Robin Smith says:

    Thank you for all the info Alex…I will N0w go through all the “message boards” stuff I have accumulated in the past 22 months and try to sift, if you will, through it. It looks like suspect X was Robert E Hunter Jr and his father Robert E Hunter Sr “according to reports” is the guy Donna went East with for six months as a nurse.

    Correct personal info on Donna is as elusive as Kane’s. We are now back with Joe Alioto and Raymond Ottobni the mayor of Colma, Ca(city of the dead) where Anton LeVay is buried.

    Donna was kN0wn to fly back and forth to Riverside with two men, one reportedly Kane.
    Donna was keeping some very questionable company and it looks like this Robert Hunter Jr(whose niece was a close friend of Cheri Jo Bates/Riverside) was Not happy with his father’s “relationship” with Donna. All total speculation and rumor of course.

    Darlene Ferrin was also keeping this questionable company with her friend Donna. Lotsa young girls here and GIRLS TALK..

    Hunter possessed the 3799 Washington Street building which has entrances on both Washington and Maple. Hunter did N0t kNow Stein but he knew Kane quite well. Kane knew Stine.


  187. Alex Lewis says:

    Tell you what i’ll do Robin, I’ll post a photograph of Suspect X on the webpage above at the bottom. At least you’ll know what X looks like then.


  188. Alex Lewis says:

    I think I know why. What many people are not aware of is that an Eight year old Witness in Stine’s Murder on Oct 11 Identified a man to police as being the man that had just left the yellow cab after ripping Paul’s shirt. This is word for word what the FBI file states: “FOR INFO OF IDENT DIVISION. SAN FRAN PD ADVISED THAT EIGHT YEAR OLD WITNESS IN MURDER OF CAB DRIVER IDENTIFIED (REDACTED NAME) AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THIS MATTER.” Kept that hushed up too haven’t they. You’d expect a positive ID to be a huge break in the case and TV & Papers having it as their top story…..But,…..nothing. It’s kept quiet. Now Suspect X up until he died made it known that if his name appears on a Zodiac site or an allegation is made he’ll take legal action. Hence, he’s always been referred to as ‘Suspect X’ Why wouldn’t he even want to acknowledge himself even being there in the area? Well, if the eight year old witness had ID’d him as the cab driver shooter, he now has every reason to make sure that does not become public knowledge and he is a multi millionaire who is a member of such clubs as The Bohemian Grove. His mansion was just down Jackson toward Spruce St. Also, what Officer Pelissetti says he asked X that night is exactly what Zodiac says in his letter boasting “This cop car pulled up & one of them called me over and asked had I seen anyone strange in the past 3 to 5 minutes….” That’s what Armond admits asking X also.


  189. Alex Lewis says:

    Well have you watched the 2007 Documentary “This is the Zodiac Speaking?” If not, First Officer on scene at Washington & Cherry that night, Armond Pelissetti, said that the witnesses told him the offender had only seconds ago walked off down Cherry St. Armond takes off in pursuit all the way to the next block over of Jackson & Maple. Now officially, Armond says he looked to the left on Maple toward the Presidio and saw nothing as it was too dark. He then said he turned to his right and saw a man walking his dog (This is Suspect X) and Pelissetti states that he asked this gentleman had he seen anyone in the area and X said ‘No.’ That’s what former SFPD Officer Pelissetti has said in the public version. Then, when speaking to Mike Butterfield over the phone in a private conversation that was ‘accidentally recorded’, Pelissetti said: “There was a very small time frame here. I got to Jackson & Maple and there was this lone guy on the driveway to a house. He wasn’t doing anything, just standing there. I called him over and kept this man around for a while.”
    Well X lives on Jaackson St, or did back then anyway, but we have two cops lying here with Don Fouke self admitted to lying in his original memo by stating that ‘Subject last observed going North on Maple’ because he wasn’t on Maple when Fouke last saw him heading in a certain direction but was, in fact, climbing a small set of concrete steps and walking down front driveway of 3712 Jackson St. Then Pelissetti admits to encoountering a white guy on a drive after Fouke last observes a white male heading toward a house at the same intersection. Has to be the same guy seen by both cops. Both lied about seeing him and where he was and what he was doing when they saw him. Why?


  190. Robin Smith says:

    The difficulty here is the fact that I was absent from the secene for 20 years…the “old” guard is still in place and “digging” into the old scene is N0t appreciated by anyone around here or their families sooo I must be circumspect gathering info…this is the first I’ve heard of Mr. X and a name would help. FYI: South Lake Tahoe Dr Charles L Hollingsworth went missing Oct 26, 1970(unsolved) Dr had a gambling problem and was just divorced (NASTY) He spent a lot of time at the Sahara…the Halloween card was sent to Paul Avery Oct 27, 1970


  191. Alex Lewis says:

    I didn’t say there was any link between Donna and Mr X, let alone ‘Relationship.’ I wasn’t claiming there was a connection between them I was just pointing out that both Donna and Mr X were both avid skiers. I don’t hint or imply this and that by dropping subtle hints, if I had any evidence that Mr X and Donna were members of the same ski group or club etc then I’d just say that. MYy point in bringing it up was to note that with both being lovers of the ski slops of Sth. Lke Thoe then it may be worth someone digging into Donna’s ski friends and clubs on the off chance she may have possible been at the same club or same school as Mr X. Mr X brought a serious percentage of the suspicion upon himself by outrightly contradicting First responder on Scene in Presidio Heights, Patrolman Armond Pelissetti. Armond said he saw and even spoke with Mr X at the intersection of Jackson & Maple on October 11 just minutes after Stine was shot. Mr X responded to this by declaring himself absent from Pacific Heights altogether on that fateful night and anyone who questioned this and claimed anything to the contrary would be sued for defamation of X’s Character. All his and X is a simple witness in the wrong place at wrong time? Is that how witnesses usually react? Not at all so X made himself highly suspicious in that alone.


  192. Robin Smith says:

    “aand x actly what was Mr X’s relationship to Donna? according to your info? if you do N0t mind sharing”

    Well, i’ll have to reply by edit and post under your question here. The only connection or something in common between Kjell & Donna Lass was Skiing. Donna was planning on taking time off work to go skiing as this was one of her favourite past times. Kjell was still an avid skier well into his late 60’s and early 70’s. Kjell’s Brother, Ragnar Qvale, was a Ski Instructor in Idaho and Kjell himself was a champion 100 M Sprinter and downhill skier.

    Brother Kjell Qvale was selected to represent the Norwegian ski manufacturer Hovde Skis and was himself an elite level downhill skier. Did one of the Qvale’s teach Donna to Ski? Don’t know, but Kjell was active in the sking activities in South Lake Tahoe and he owned a property down there too.


  193. Alex Lewis says:

    No problem. I often think about Donna’s family and the not knowing. What happened to David Faraday, Betty-Lou, Paul Stine and the others who died at Zodiac’s hand, as tragic and senseless as their murders were, their loved ones know what happened to them and they have a place to go to mourn their loved one at the graveside. Donna’s family don’t have this luxury because they simply don’t know who is responsible for her (almost certain) abduction and murder, the motive for it, how she died, when she died, where her body is now and only know she seemed to leave the Sahara Hotel one night, and then vanish off the face of the Earth.
    How well did you know Donna then Robin? I have heard it claimed that Donna had an addiction to gambling, have no idea how accurate that is. And a favourite hobby of hers was skiing apparently, this I am curious about as Mr X was an avid Skier and even had family that taught Skiing and ran a business selling skiing equipment down in South Tahoe.


  194. Robin Smith says:

    P.S. Thank you for doing an admirable job of making my case against Kane!


  195. Robin Smith says:

    My position is completely personal and the identity of the person/s that took Donna Lass from, figuratively speaking, the bar stool next to me Sep 6, 1970 will change my life. My research and opinions however are completely objective as I am an analyst N0t an analist:)…cheers Alex


  196. Robin Smith says:

    Larry Kane was in my opinion the or at the very least one of the Z’s.


  197. Alex Lewis says:

    Fouke can only Identify the guy if he recognized and knew him from somewhere else at the time of the encounter. If Fouke looks at Zodiac, doesn’t recognize him or know him, and Zodiac slips away into the night, then Fouke knows what he looks like, but not the identity or name of this person. Fouke has said in recent years that his memory is not what it once was and that he doesn’t think he could now point to someone and say “That’s the man I saw.” Fouke has said thought that of the hundreds of photographs of different suspects he has been asked too look at, the one that is the closest match to the suspect he remembers on Jackson Street is the photo of Lawrence Kane.


  198. Robin Smith says:

    Officer Fouke, a trained observer, saw Zodiac under street lights and looked him straight in the face?!…then he should be able to identify that person…N0t some teenager that is being shot at. Pardon my ignorance on these subjects however, I was there, 1960’s Lake Tahoe. N0t paying attention to much but staying alive.


  199. Alex Lewis says:

    I try to remain as objective as possible and not to come to the table to discus suspects with a closed mind, preconceived opinions and a bias for anything or anyone. The truth is, if it was determined tomorrow to an almost scientific certainty that Lawrence Kane played no part in the series of Zodiac crimes, I still would bot believe Bruce was involved basically because I haven’t ever seen one shred of evidence to support the notion. Davis was in his mid 20’s in 69, the Zodiac according to Don Fouke was approx. 35 – 45. That doesn’t mean, of course, that just because you don’t see something that it is not there and I am always completely willing to be proven wrong, or to have someone totally challenge my above claims and I try to be open to anything. It always makes me giggle when Amateur Sleuths say “Well, My suspect was at such and such…” I get this mental image of Howard Davis screaming “Bruce is my suspect…..go away and find your own!” Hehe.


  200. Alex Lewis says:

    With suspects such as Bruce Davis, the way I look at it is like this. Officer Fouke, a Trained observer, saw Zodiac under street lights and looked him straight in the face. “I remember seeing his eyes. . . Couldn’t tell you what color they were. It was dark, dark enough that his eyes (Color) was concealed” Don stated.
    Well, to see the eyes of a man, you must first look him directly in the face. If Bruce Davis was the man walking down the hill that Fouke saw, wouldn’t you think he’d realize it based on Davis being in the news quite heavily back around that time?

    Surviving Victim Hartnell emphatically stated that Zodiac’s voice had a very precise cadence to it, and said that he told the Authorities back then that if he ever heard that voice again he would recognize it. Mageau said his attacker had a large rounded face, and Hartnell described Zodiac as overweight in the 220-250lbs range which was confirmed by the depth of the footprint found at Lake Berryessa by someone who would have to be around the 200lb mark at least. Again, that’s not Bruce.


  201. Robin Smith says:

    The point, I believe, is that somebody DOES kN0w. Larry Kane/Cane/Klien and Bruce Davis must have kN0wn each other. Whether they worked in tandem or independently there is ample evidence that these two were in a close “community” type situation with each other and both knew Donna and Darlene. Back to J Edgar Hoover and that “bunch”. Mae Brussell (May29, 1922 – Oct3, 1988) has a good take on that in my opinion.


  202. Mark says:

    Bruce did have very short hair in a mugshot from about 1970 and if he was working construction any, there’s a chance he had it short at that time, too. Do a Google image search for “Bruce Davis mugshot” and you’ll find at least one with extremely short hair. I’m not saying I believe he was Zodiac, but the Albany thing caught my attention so I thought I’d throw in the Doreen Gaul angle. She was from Albany and had a letter supposedly from Zodiac. Davis is a usual suspect, but who knows?


  203. Robin Smith says:

    Bruce Davis frequented/worked at Lake Tahoe during the 60’s. In 1970 the population of the city of South Lake Tahoe was reportedly 12,921. Incorporated in 1965 it included the TAHOE KEYS,1,500 homes and canals whose construction (in the early 60’s by Dillingham/Sacramento Ca) destroyed 50% of the Upper Truckee Marsh which is the PRIMARY filter for river water entering Lake Tahoe. According to Wikipedia THE KEYS has since been called the most environmentally damaging intrusion on lakeshore in Lake Tahoe’s HUMAN history! Bruce was here and working construction and casinos in the early 60’s. Bruce was back and forth across the Stateline Nv/Ca day in and day out. Charles Manson may N0t have had anything to do with Zodiac but Bruce did.


  204. Alex Lewis says:

    Hi Mark. I personally don’t believe that there is any connection between Mason and the Manson Family and the Zodiac. The Manson lot never killed alone, they were pack hunters. Also, victimology plays a big part in who Manson’s lot went after such as Sharon Tate, whereas Zodiac was happy to target the everyday teenager. I could be wrong about that obviously but for me, the main Manson ‘follower’ that is suspected of being Zodiac is Bruce Davis. Davis had long ‘hippy style’ hair in the late 60’s, a far cry from the Presidio Heights mad man with a short cropped crew cut.


  205. Alex Lewis says:

    Oh and interestingly enough, our Friend Mr Kane was a former Car Dealer in Alameda County, so would Kane, the former Auto Dealer in Alameda know the Auto Import Tycoon from San Francisco Mr Kjell Qvale? I can’t verify that and it’s too late to question Kane or Kjell now as both are deceased, Kane dying in May of 2010 at age 86, and Kjell passed away November of 2013 age 94.


  206. Alex Lewis says:

    Hi Greg, thanks for the positive comments. The Co-conspirator angle is something I myself am starting to suspect more and more recently. The White Male that Officer Armond Pelissetti saw the night Paul Stine was murdered and who he refers to as “A man walking his dog” on Maple Street is not as innocently loitering as he seems in my opinion because in a private telephone conversation between Armond and Mike Butterfield that was ‘Accidentally recorded’, Armond tells Butterfield that the man he publically claimed was out walking a dog that night Near Maple Street was not actually on Maple at all, nor did he have a dog! He admits that this man was actually on the driveway to a house at the Intersection near Jackson & Maple Streets and that, quote: “He was on the drive, just standing there.” The reason Pelissetti won’t go public with this information is because of who the white male was that he found standing on that drive….Kjell Qvale, the multi-millionaire Auto importer who went on to own Bank of the West among numerous other businesses!


  207. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I have Kanes DNA…well, I have a postcard with two stamps on it sent by Larry Kane/Cane/Klien…I am sure he licked them! I canN0t PROVE he licked them, however I would bet on it…the card came from Australia to a personal friend of his sooo there you go


  208. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you for the compliment. The Bruce Davis theory, and this is nothing more than my personal opinion, has never been something I’ve looked at with any in-depth research because straight away the first thing I noticed about Bruce in the late 60’s instantly seems to suggest he isn’t the Presidio Heights Phantom. Davis had long, dark hippy type hair in the late 60’s which is totally inconsistent with the reddish blonde colored hair in the military crew cut style that the witnesses saw Zodiac sporting.


  209. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you Richard. As far as I am aware, the Riverside Police Dpt. (RPD) homed in on one specific person and were convinced that he was Cheri’s murderer and did so to the exclusion of other possibilities and suspects. RPD have never believed Zodiac was responsible for Cheri’s homicide.
    To the best of my recollection, when DNA testing became available the RPD sent the hairs that Cheri was found clutching in her hand to their crime lab because the hairs found in her hand had the roots attached to them suggesting that these hairs had been ripped from the head of Cheri’s assailant shortly before she was killed. The root’s of the hair is the only part of the hair that allows for the presence of DNA, so the hairs were sent and tested and a subsequent DNA profile was successfully obtained from the root of one or more of these hair’s.
    Riverside PD, to the best of my knowledge, only used this DNA sample for a comparison with their long time No.1 suspect for Bates murder. The Unknown Male DNA from the hair was compared to the DNA of their long time Suspect and the results showed that the two samples were not a match and in doing so, eliminated the man they had always fully believed had killed Cheri. After this, they had simply shelved the case again, along with the suspects DNA.


  210. Mark says:

    Just some random thoughts. Back early in the comments I saw mention of Albany, NY. The supposed Manson Family victim, Doreen Gaul, was from Albany. The usual suspect for her murder is Bruce Davis, who I also see mentioned in other comments. And, as I recall, among her belongings was a letter supposedly from Zodiac.


  211. msvick66 says:

    Makes me think of that phrase “the mark of Kane”.


  212. Alex Lewis says:

    “.Also the handwriting that LK was asked to give looks very forced and “drunken” like.Like he was purposefully trying to make it look off.”

    I’ve always said the same. It’s not as if Kane didn’t know why they asked him for a sample of his writing or what it was in relation to because they’d questioned him about the Zodiac crimes before they asked for a writing sample and just to make sure he knew what this was about, they ask him to write the phrase “This is the Zodiac Speaking.” And Zod I agree, eye witnesses recollection is highly unreliable and this has been proven time and time again. However, I think it takes it to another level when the witnesses recalling the suspects details is a trained observer and serving SFPD Officer.


  213. Zod69 says:

    Yes all of what you just mentioned plus his arrest record for assaults.And that sketch made me fall out my chair!!! It just looks exactly like LK its unbelievable.The other sketch is inconsistent but thats the sketches fault not the killer’s.If 2 sketches are different then that either means that there were 2 killers or one of the sketches is incorrect. Like someone said before the sketches arent photos.There just vague assessments of what somebody thinks they might have seen/Also memory can be tricky.What you remember isnt always exactly what one sees.Its human nature to see what you believe.If you think of the killer that you saw as big and scary then maybe you just added that when he actually wasnt that big.Also the handwriting that LK was asked to give looks very forced and “drunken” like.Like he was purposefully trying to make it look off. Also about the age difference.I thought I remember at least one witness saying that he looked 40 to 45. Besides what age someone looks from a distance or in the dark isnt necessarily FACT.Ive talked with people close up in light that I thought were 10 years younger than they were.Im not an age expert so how do I know what someone’s age is just by looking at them.Its wrong to assume the age that was claimed IS definitely the exact age they saw.Also how is it a coincidence that one of the scrambled lines on the coded letters spells out My Name Kane??? That cant be ignored! Plus I believe the bootprints they found were Navy issued.I’m not sure but I heard something along those lines that the suspect was likely to have Navy ties. Has anybody found out what size shoe LK wore?


  214. Greg Glover says:

    Great work Mr. Lewis. I just found your web site yesterday. When I saw the handwriting of Lawrence Kane, I about fell over. It is an exact match for the physical style of his writing. I see many good singular comparisons as well.

    The thing that has bothered me the most, is the physical writing of the ciphers. It was always physically to uniform and to purposefully placed. I never though “Z” had actually printed them upon the paper himself. To this day, I convinced there is a co-conspirator.

    I remembered one of the “Z” letters that bothered me. I just looked back and found it. I is the “Little List” letter post marked July 26th 1970. My opinion is that “Z” once again got some to write for him. It would be: pages, 3-5; except that “Z” added the cross hairs signature and reference point of Mt. Diablo on page 5 afterwards. “Z”’s actual letter is pages, 1-2; with his usual cross hairs signature.

    I would like to add… Something is very suspicious with the FBI as it pertains to this suspect. Again great work, Greg

    Liked by 1 person

  215. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you Richard. The DNA found under CJB nails has not been crossed checked against Kane’s DNA and, unfortunately, it never will be in all probability as no known sample of Kane’s DNA exists.


  216. Brilliant research and page. The DNA under Cheri Jo Bates’ (the Riverside victim’s) fingernails, has it been tested for a match with Kane?


  217. Alex Lewis says:

    Do me a favour please if you get a few seconds spare, could you send me the link again that you sent me yesterday? I opened them and forgot to save it to my computer. Cheers.


  218. Alex Lewis says:

    OK, what are the details of what you added to this post that you asked me not to post publically? I’ve edited your comment to remove the two links that you didn’t want to be publically posted. Email me the details at


  219. none says:

    You know of *Redacted in edit* and *redacted in edit* with the Lake Berryessa attack? Here is their father. Do not post, just research.


  220. billy says:

    Yes,I understand what you meant by identity which could be like you pointed out,park ranger, or could be glue sniffer, alcoholic brown bagger etc. . I was talking about the 13 digit my name code. There was a book with the same code in it, explaining how to crack it.


  221. Alex Lewis says:

    Do you believe zodiac hid his identity in the cypher?

    Yes. His Identity or a clue to it I believe is there. If the question is put slightly different and i’m asked do I believe his Name is in the 408, my answer would be No, not likely.

    He did not say: “In this Cipher is my Name” but rather: “In this cipher is my identity.”

    A persons identity can be lot of things to lots of people, and not necessarily does it need to be his name. I mean If I saw a person in the street wearing black trousers, high vis. jacket, baton, pepper spray and radio on his person, I’d identify that man as simply ‘ Police Officer.’ To other’s your identity, or what they use to identify you by, could be the race of the person, or the sexuality even, it can be numerous things.

    In English the word ‘IDENTITY’ is synonymous with ‘NAME’ yes, but it is also synonymous with ‘PERSONALITY, STATUS, CHARACTER and EXISTENCE.’ So his identity could be any of these or numerous other things.

    But irregardless of the specific’s of what it may be, yes, I think something is there somewhere.


  222. Alex Lewis says:

    “but he had to be smarter than Kane.”

    I see. So are you basing this on anything specific? Or is this your personal opinion of: “Zodiac had to be smarter than Kane and the reason this is true is because I decided that it is.”

    Now by stating that Zodiac had to be smarter than Kane you are implying by such a comment that you know the IQ of both Kane and the Zodiac Killer? Your comment assumes that KANE is clearly an idiot because he got arrested many times. I have it on fairly good authority from a Zodiac sleuth what Kane’s rough IQ was. But you must know this yourself because you seem to have decided Zodiac = intelligence personified and KANE = Idiot. I was told that KANE’s IQ was way above the average and was consistent with very high intelligence. Now before anyone asks for evidence I said already and will freely admit again, that is only something I have been told, not something I have or am able to verify.


  223. billy says:

    Do you believe zodiac hid his identity in the cypher? I know the police probably don’t believe that ,but I feel he could have done that to pull one over on them. What is you take on that? Have you heard about the books found in Vallejo in the late 90’s at a thrift shop with all kinds of writing in it with cross hairs symbols through all the pages,which also included information to breaking the my name is cypher by the means of using letters and numbers?


  224. Alex Lewis says:

    No I don’t have access to Kane’s travel history and passport. That’s what I was meaning to ask, I read somewhere recently (can’t for the life of me remember where exactly) that Kane was apparently married for a short period of time before getting divorced. Wouldn’t be in a position to verify or refute that by any chance would you? If he was married then I really would like to know to whom he got hitched?


  225. billy says:

    I never said zodiac was a genius, but he had to be smarter than Kane. If zodiac was arrested at some point, the police would have known who he was through fingerprints. They obviously checked kane’s prints against zodiac. Ok, the two sketches look different ,but both sketches do not show bushy eyebrows, and the nose is different. How do you explain that? If Kane was the zodiac, the police would have been able to tie him to the crimes,so this suggests that you are making him out to be a genius,although he has a long arrest record?


  226. Alex Lewis says:

    I have to admit that recently I have been considering the idea that there was possibly more than one person behind this Zodiac persona. The only thing that instantly spring to mind when I do think about the possibility of more than one person involved is that famous saying used by the Mob a lot and that’s “Three people can keep a secret yes, if two of them are dead,”


  227. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you. I recognised the screen name lol. What’s you name anyway, PM me if you like instead of writing it here on the public space. If you’d rather not say I understand but I just much prefer to talk or respond to someone by name cause I was going to say “Thank you Ophion1031” but can’t do it as I feel like I am saying thank you to a non entity lol.


  228. ophion1031 says:

    I have thought about a possible Kane/Davis connection once or twice, but I really think a Kane/Manalli connection would make more sense. Great website btw, Alex!


  229. Alex Lewis says:

    Robin, who were you married to? Initial’s T.G.A by any chance?


  230. Alex Lewis says:

    Doesn’t fit the sketch? Which sketch? I shall assume your referring to the San Francisco sketch because the Lake Berryessa Sketch and Kane are strikingly similar.

    “And Kane was too stupid and just a petty criminal, something opposite to the real Zodiac”

    Oh really? Kane’s associate states He had an extensive knowledge & understanding of Law, particularly Civil Law. Other Press articles imply Kane had an associate in the 17,000 Dollar Jewel Theft that the paper did not Name and would only state that Kane’s partner in this crime was a known figure in Organized Crime. Petty Criminal? Anything but!

    Secondly, you obviously know very little about the Zodiac. You’ve bought into the myth that Zodiac was some sort of criminal genius, too clever and crack proof as he himself declared. In reality he shot Paul Stine, fumbled and messed around at the cab for a few minutes while witnesses were already on the phone to 911 and the response is swift. Patrol Officer Armond Pelissetti is speeding down Washington Street to the scene and Zodiac walks off down Cherry street then turns onto Jackson Street to avoid Pelissetti it’s too late because in avoiding one officer on Washington Street, he walks directly into the headlights of a second responding police car driven by Officer Don Fouke and his partner Eric Zelms. Zodiac then turns into a house and Fouke slows down as he spots him but continues on passed because, according to Fouke AND Pelissetti. the dispatcher had issued a BOLO (Be on the Lookout) for a NMA – Negro Male Adult.

    So if it hadn’t have been for a screw up in the suspects description then Zodiac would have, and should have, been caught there and then because he stayed around the scene like he had nothing to worry about and by the time he did walk away, the police were coming from all directions and he walked straight into their path. Some Criminal Genius that is! The reality is, not the Hollywood romantic myth of a super-criminal, but the reality, is that Zodiac just got very lucky.


  231. billy says:

    Kane was smart enough to kill 5 people, or possibly more,but stupid enough to get arrested many times? Just a petty criminal too stupid to have been zodiac,something opposite of the real zodiac . Doesn’t fit sketches or anything. Too big a nose with bushy eyebrows.


  232. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I have possession of a postcard from Larry Cane to my ex sent from Australia…I canN0t read the posted date on it. I kN0w also that my ex traveled to China with him at least once.

    Have you checked out his passport for inconsistencies?


  233. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…I dealt Blackjack for Bill Harrah BC, (before corporate 1971), and was married, in the 70’s, to a very close friend of Bob Maloff and Larry Cane/Kane/Klien.

    Being 20 years younger than this group I paid very little if any attention to them at that time. Divorced I left.

    I have since returned to Tahoe, discovered their nefarious dealings, and have been roiling the local turf for the truth about the disappearance of Donna Lass. Someone in this town is alive and well and kN0ws exactly what happened to Donna. I remain determined to ferret out the truth.

    These are dangerous people and there is N0 statue of limitations on murder.

    I have N0 computer skills whatsoever and could very easily lose my ability to reach you this way so my land line phone is 530-541-1155.

    If you would like to speak with me you may call…I screen my calls when I am working so if you call speak to the machine and I will pick up.


  234. Alex Lewis says:

    Thanks for the info Rob, much appreciated. How did you come across this info regarding Bob handling Kane’s affairs if you don’t mind me asking? And was his birth name ‘Cane?’ I have been told it was Klein or Kline.


  235. Robin Smith says:

    Alex…Larry Kane’s personal affairs were handled by Robert ‘Bob’ Maloff (1921-June 2, 2011).

    Maloff was a longtime Lake Tahoe resident and was in the hotel business most of his career with George Achilles Karadanis (12-26-1930 to 12-25-2009). The two men developed and operated the Lake Tahoe Inn and the Timber Cove Lodge.

    Maloff is survived by his wife Lisa who lives in Skyland, Zephyr Cove, Nv. Lisa was wardrobe mistress for singer Kay Starr.


  236. Robin Smith says:

    Alex..Larry Kane must have kN0wn Bruce Davis.

    Bruce was KN0wn to frequent/work at Lake Tahoe. There was (1960-1970), and still is, a large hippie/biker element at Tahoe as well as prominent entertainers and political figures.

    Through all the N0sing around I’ve done N0 one puts these two names(Kane and Davis) in the same sentence. There is evidence that Donna Lass knew both of these guys.

    The FBI is probably the reason Larry Kane has never been caught and why Bruce Davis is in jail for life….


  237. Alex Lewis says:

    Hey Mike, sorry for taking a while to respond to your comment, I remember seeing it and meaning to reply, but I must have got side tracked and forgot. Glad you mentioned SFPD Patrol Officer Don Fouke, and what he said after being shown a photograph of Lawrence. Of all the people that came into contact with Zodiac and lived to recount it, there is only one that see’s Zodiac unasked and under street lighting at a fairly close proximity. Don Fouke was also not fighting for his life, in a sheer adrenalin fuelled panic when he see’s Zodiac such as Mike Mageau was when he saw Zodiac (from a profile view point, ie, side on not direct face to face) and had been shot in the face and torso and had, what Mike described as, a blinding beam of light shined into his eyes before he was shot. Hartnell saw Zodiac with a mask obscuring his complete head so never saw him to give a description.

    Don Fouke is a trained observer, that’s part of his job description so he is trained to look for, and remember what facial features to look for, identifying marks etc, and his description of what Zodiac was wearing is remarkably detailed. (Incidentally, the description of Zodiac’s clothes given by Fouke, is identical to the description given by Hartnell of what Zodiac was wearing two week before when he attacked and stabbed him. Don said that he’d been shown hundreds of photographs over the years of potential suspects in the case, but when shown Larry Kane’s Photo he stated that of all the hundreds he has been shown and seen, Lawrence Kane’s is the closest and best likeness to the man he remembers seeing on Jackson St that night. He said he couldn’t, and wasn’t willing, to say definitively ‘Yes, it’s him’ because too much time had elapsed since the night he encountered him (20 years at the time he looked at Kane’s Pic)


  238. Michael says:

    I am completely with Alex in that I fully believe that Lawrence Kane was the Zodiac. Not only was he in the area of each of the killings, he was identified from photographs by Darlene Ferrin’s two sisters, by kidnapped victim Kathleen Johns, by the police officer in CA after he abducted the girl in Las Vegas, and by SFPD officer Fouke as the strongest likeness. His cars matched the cars reported by witnesses(and then he would trade them in shortly after the crimes). He knew and was clearly stalking South Lake Tahoe victim Donna Lass. This is beyond circumstantial. I have never heard anything connecting Gaikowski to the crimes at all other than his voice and some crackpot named Goldcatcher. Not enough to even make him a real suspect.


  239. Alex Lewis says:

    Tom said on his own website forum, quote “(Harvey) Hines is an idiot, that’s the most logical conclusion I can think of. Harvey is a very shady individual…” end quote.

    In response to this one member asks “Tom, would you care to elaborate on this rather cutting assessment of Hines?” Tom ignores this very reasonable question trying to avoid having to give reason/evidence for his statement but the forum member is having none of it and repeats: “Tom, Would you please find time to give me a response to my query?” Tom then answers with two ‘reasons’ in answer to the bloggers question.

    First he states: “My reasons for finding Hines to be a shady character are based on my personal dealings with him.” Such as…? Tom? Oh… that’s it? No specifics, no examples, just a generalisation. Then Tom states his second reason for believing Harvey to be the aforementioned ‘Idiot’ and states: “My reasons for finding Hines to be an idiot are based on the logic he used to reach the conclusion that Lawrence Kane is Zodiac” Again, first question I must insist be answered is ‘Such as, Tom?

    Here is just one example of Tom’s ‘Logic’ when considering Gaik as possibly being The Zodiac: ‘Ignore Bob Loomis and his physical evidence he’s produced to show proof beyond doubt that Richard GaIkowski was not in The State of California in late December of 68. Just keep pointing to ‘GYKE’ appearing in a line of cipher, even though Gaikowski never ever shortened his name spelling it ‘GYKE’ at all, always ‘GAIK.’ Someone tell Tom that the reason Richard never spelled it GYKE is probably due to the fact that the name GAIKOWSKI has no letter Y anywhere in it!

    And so, a suspect being out of State is irrelevant to Voigt it would seem and the Logical thing to do in the World of Tom is simply to Ignore Robert Loomis, ignore him until he goes away. Producing meaningless silly stuff like physical evidence pointing to Gaikowski being innocent, who does this man think He is to challenge Tom’s opinion/belief? Tom just keeps ignoring that Gaik was in NY and not CA and continue to promote the real evidence of “Look! There’s the word GYKE in the middle of the 408 Cipher!!”

    When you point out that even if it were correct it would mean very little by itself but it’s a smoke and mirrors load of faff anyway. GAIKOWSKI always spelled the shortened version of his name ‘GAIK’ and not one single letter has ever been found signed By Richard as ‘GYKE.’ This, I would think, is very probably due to the fact that There is no Y in GAIKOWSKI.

    I happen to know Harvey visited Donna’s place of employment, her residence, interviewing her colleagues at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel etc and basically investigated the Disappearance just as Detectives, which Harvey was himself, would. This objective, impartial way of investigating is Alien to Tom so he probably is being honest when he states that his reasons for believing Harvey is an idiot is due to his logic used to conclude Kane may be the Zodiac.

    Hines started looking into the disappearance of Donna Lass. His logic was to pull the missing persons file on the case, then visit the scene of where she was last seen alive and interview the witnesses (Pathetic! What sort of retarded logic is that to investigate a crime? :-/ ) Tom’s idea of investigating is ‘Make a lot of noise about junk’evidence’and ignore the overwhelming available physical evidence that Gaikowski wasn’t in California in late Dec of 68.

    Then we are told by Thomas (paraphrasing here) “It is highly suspicious that Richard’s passport cannot be located to confirm any flight’s in and out of Cali.” That is correct Tom, it is suspicious! I mean, at the time you said this Richard had been dead for 10 years and by default therefor not likely to need a passport to leave the State as He has already left this Earth! **BRAVO**


  240. Alex Lewis says:

    Hey Rich. Well in my opinion, Tom Voigt’s claims are not credible due to his obvious bias for Gaikowski as Zodiac to the exclusion of any other possibility. Now some may say “But you have a bias for Kane, surely?” Well, yes I suppose I do have a bias toward Kane as Zodiac but I do so based on Facts listed above and I don’t have a blinkered Bias so that I do not consider other possibilities and suspects. Nor do I get angry and insulting to people who may choose to disagree with me that Kane is Zodiac. Tom’s banned paying members from his website forum after they publicly questioned his conclusions on Gaikowski or outrightly told him they did ot agree with him. Not allowed to have your own opinion at His site, you must agree with Him and His conclusions and then keep telling Tom how brilliant He is.

    He has written the most horrible review on regarding Lyndon Lafferty’s book and if I thuought for a moment it was a genuine criticism i’d not mention it but Tom will try and discredit and/or publically defame anyone that does not agree with his own assertion that Gaik is Zodiac. He takes it absolutely personal and seems to believe that other people are not allowed to have, certainly not voice publically, an opinion of their own. Someone should ask Him if he is aware that we actually live in a Democratic Society, and not a Dictatorship.

    He has called Harvey Hines A ‘Shady’ character, all the while promoting the source of his suspect, Blaine Blaine, as totally credible despite Law Enforcement describing Blain as a compulsive liar and fantasist who, they said, has told several different stories as to why Richard is Zodiac, and that’s why they dismissed his claims and called him a, quote: ‘Kook’.

    Blain would not even give his real name when he showed up on Mystery-Quest to claim Richard Gaikiwski was Zodiac, and his face was not shown on camera. That to me says everything you need to know about the confidence of his claims and according to one website, Blain has change his story about Gaikowski several times.

    Harvey Hines, in the mean-time, has never hidden behind an Alias and had his face/identity concealed while on camera when pointing the finger at Kane. He has gone on camera and record using his real name.

    So to Tom’s allegations I would simply say this. if you ask me who is more credible as a source, A former Detective with a law enforcement background who has come forward staking his reputation and used his real name and put his face on camera, or someone who law enforcement have claimed is unreliable and prone to story telling and who’s version regarding Gaik has changed many times and this source is not willing to go on tv and show his face nor disclose his real name? I know which one I would be inclined to believe as the more credible. I’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again, if Harvey Hines said he interviewed Donna’s co-workers at the Hotel and they named Kane as being ‘weird’, then until someone shows me proof to the contrary, I am inclined to believe this former Law Officer.

    As we see here, in the link that follows this post, Harvey Hines appears as himself, not under an assumed name, and states that he asked Donna’s Co-Workers could the think of anyone strange or odd that worked at the Hotel, and states that “Without exception, they named Larry Kane.” I doubt he would claim this if it was not true because anyone could simply double check this claim by going to interview Donnas Co-Workers themselves and find out that Harvey had never spoken to them and/or Kane had never worked there. (Link to Hines on camera, as himself and not hiding his face, stating his claims: )


  241. Welsh I was reading on, that Tom Voigt states there is no evidence that Larry Kane was ever at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel at the same time as Donna Lass and we only have Harvey Hines word for this. What is your take on it.


  242. Alex Lewis says:

    If you can find out anything such as who he had listed as next of kin or who took care of his burial arrangements, basically info or names of the people who may have known Larry I would be very appreciative.


  243. Alex Lewis says:

    “He is man of great ego with disease known to science as pseudologia fantastica.”
    This connection to Treasure Island and it’s antagonist ‘Zodiac’ has been notice and brought up before as seen in this clip of ‘Case Reopened – The Zodiac Killer.’ Link: (Skip to 9:20 of the clip for the reference to Charlie Chan and Zodiac.)
    But good points you make and yes I agree, wherever Kane seems to be, people go missing or are murdered. There are many people who are more than willing to accept that Kane probably abducted Donna Lass, and/or that he was responsible for other murders, but they won’t accept he was Zodiac for some reason. I have always put this down to them simply having a mental image of who Zodiac is in their own minds and Kane isn’t it. As one chat site member once told me: “I don’t think Kane is Zodiac, Kane is too boring.” This suggests that some people, this person specifically, think that the identity of Zodiac depends on who they deem exciting enough rather than stuff like evidence and facts.
    In reality the odds are that Zodiac was exactly like we know Kane was, a loner with an above average IQ. That would explain why his writing was never recognised by anyone. And if the man behind the Zodiac crimes really was such an outgoing, attention seeking braggart who couldn’t keep his mouth shut then would he really have been able to avoid capture all these years? I doubt it. However, someone like Kane, a loner with a huge ego, who lived with his Mother until she died when he himself was in his 50’s, someone like that could very easily fly under the radar of suspicion.


  244. Larry Cane was definitely the zodiac he was like Angela Lansbury whereever he went a body turned up. He had the innate jewish ability to lay low like the watergate insider like Meyer Lansky like the doctor that killed all the women in the black dahlia murders. One bit of evidence no one has ever noticed that I did while listening to old charley chan movies to put me to sleep is “treasure island” is a total blueprint of the zodiac. The central character is named zodiac by the name of the “great rhodini” there is a book in one segment with authors name “kahne” Kane was of the 40s he vicariously lived off these movies and then acted them out like he was in one of those charley chan movies as the deft villian. The key clue as the initial left after writing a poem at Riverside City College was “rh” but with the treasure island connection rh stands for rhodini so that pretty much solves the mystery of what rh meant it was an abbreviaton of the “great rhodini” case solved.


  245. Alex Lewis says:

    I have it saved on my computer. What is your email address? I can send it as an attachment in email if you want?


  246. Sean says:

    Can you please scan the medical application and send it to me via email?
    Thank you.


  247. Alex Lewis says:

    However, I have a medical application form filled in by Cane and on this one he lists his SSN as something completely different. I can send you this application form filled in by Cane if you like, It lists his name, home address, Tel. No. and SSN. However, he does not list any info regarding next of kin etc. He never does that anywhere for some reason. If you want me to send you this document let me know what your email address is.


  248. Alex Lewis says:

    According to information I have, Lawrence Cane’s SSN No. was: 101-12-2950


  249. Sean says:

    Alex, I’m trying to obtain Kane’s Navy service number and his SSN number so I call pull his Navy services records and then try to obtain his employment history (tax records). Would you happen to have any documents that hold Kane’s personal information?


  250. Sean C says:

    Hello Alex, I called Northern Nevada Veterans Cemetery and Lawrence Kane was cremated.
    That puts a huge burden on having allowing DNA to eliminate him as a suspect. I know will try to find out if his mother was buried or cremated.


  251. SeanC says:

    Here is a link I found to some really excellent recently declassified FBI documents.
    I suggest you download Section 1, I found some really interesting FBI analysis on the letters Zodiac sent to the newspapers. The FBI think they had a suspect but no solid evidence to charge him with any crimes.


  252. Alex Lewis says:

    That would be great Sean, anything you can do to help I would really appreciate. However, he was buried as Lawrence Cane, not Kane. He was arrested as ‘Kane’ because his book-in mug shot shows him holding a card with his name Kane. So, unless he legally changed it, I don’t know how he got away with it. Also, on his online memorial page, Nevada Memorial Cemetery list him as being born April 24, 1924 as seen here:
    Scroll down that page and click ‘View Obituaries’ and now he’s listed as being born April 29, 1924 as seen here:

    As the article states Kane/Cane had many different aliases and the FBI report in the Article shows that Vallejo PD found Kane in possession of a forged CA drivers licence. (Kane couldn’t get a Licence due to his head injury and blackouts)


  253. SeanC says:

    Alex, I was thinking last night about how I might assist in finding a time line for LK.
    I will write to the IRS, and see what records I am permitted to access since everybody has to pay taxes in order to collect any benefits as a Veteran (LK was buried in a Veteran Cemetery).


  254. SeanC says:

    Thank you for your quick reply Alex. I too used to believe (I’m not sure that much right now), that LK was the Zodiac. I’m eager to assist you in your efforts. I’m going to contact Veterans Affairs (VA) and inquire about what documents they still have on LK. I’m hoping VA will still have on file psychiatric/medical reports since he only died 3 years ago.I think if somebody can have his body exhumed for DNA samples we can exclude him from the list of suspects.


  255. Alex Lewis says:

    I’ve had a reply from the FBI regarding Kane in which they state they cannot find any information relevant to what I had asked for. The letter stated I could ask again for a second search if I had any more details I could add in order to help them locate the documents so I sent another, far more detailed, request to the FBI and have received a letter from them acknowledging that they had received my latest request.


  256. Sean says:

    Hello Alex, has your FOI for the Letterman Army Hospital records regarding Kane come back yet?


  257. Alex Lewis says:

    Apparently, Lawrence was born Lawrence Klein in New York, the Son of Morris H Klein, and Sarah Benjamin Klein (nee Sarah Benjamin Kane). Lawrence went by the name Kane while in the SF area in the late 60’s, he’s pictured in one mug shot, taken in San Mateo County, 1968, holding a board up in front of him with the name KANE – ID 58222. But, apparently, after leaving SF, he went by the name Lawrence Cane. He’s buried (as you see on the site photo of Kane’s grave above) as Lawrence Cane in Nevada’s Veteran Memorial Cemetery as Lawrence Cane.
    So, if his name was Cane, how could he manage to get arrested and charged in San Mateo as Larry Kane without police discovering his name was Cane? Also, Kane/Cane/Klein used several Dates of Birth. You can see this for yourself if you go to Cane’s memorial page (I’ll supply a link at the end of this post). Cane’s info on the Naveda Memorial site is listed as ‘Born: 04/26/1924 – Died 05/20/2010.’ But, if you go scroll down the very same page and click ‘View Obituaries’ for him, it then claims that he was ‘Born: 04/29/1924 – Died: 05/19/2010.’

    Then theres other Identities he had. For example, The Dpt. of Motor Vehicle’s refused to issue Lawrence with a licence because of his brain injury and blackouts. This was of no concern to Lawrence, as he owned two false/forged drivers licences, both with different DOB’s, names and Photo’s, but both were clearly his. On ‘Larry Cane’s’ drivers licence, it’s stated this time he was born 04/29/1922.

    Recently i’ve thought a lot about Kane having left San Francisco for Lake Tahoe and starting work, selling real estate, for Allen Dorfman, the well know mafia ‘front man’ who was involved in multi million dollar frauds. Either Kane landed this job so easy because he had connections to organized crime (This would be consistant and explain the forged Drivers licences, ID’s etc as the Mafia were extremely good at that sort of deception), or Lawrence was a FBI Informant, and thats how and why he was able to get arrested under assumed names without the police uncovering his identity through finger print checks. I am not the only one who has though how strange it is that Kane leaves SF, stops using the name Kane, instead now is known as Cane, and starts instantly working for a man that we know the FBI were trying desperately for years to get evidence against for signing off multi million dollar loan’s to known Mafia Figures.

    Also, in 1991, Vallejo Police Dpt wrote to the SFPD, Benicia PD and Napa Sheriff’s Office asking the three agencies for copies of Lawrence Kanes prints so Vallejo PD could compare them against the print found at the cab. Vallejo finally submitted a request to the FBI for them to locate and compare any prints they may have of Lawrence Kane, with the Cab print. Strangely though, not only did Vallejo PD not get result from the SFPD, Benicia PD and Napa Sheriff’s Office who all said they did not have them on their files, but the final submitted request to the FBI seems to have never been followed up on either. Why not? Theres a file that exactly the same for Arthur Allen, and in that one it clearly shows a document asking the FBI to compare prints, followed by a document stating the FBI had received the request, and finally a 3rd document stating that the comparison had been carried out, and the results were listed in the document (Negative: No Match to suspect Arthur Leigh Allen).

    In Kane’s case, theres a document submitted by Vallejo PD asking the FBI to do the same thing for Lawrence Kane, and thats it. Theres no reply, nor is there even an acknowledgement that the FBI were willing to cooperate with the Police’s request. Just strange all round.


  258. Alex Lewis says:

    On your question of “Is there anywhere else were we can gain an insight into the life of Kane?” Trying to follow a paper trail on Kane, or find out any detailed info regarding his personal life is something that I have found extremely frustrating. I should hear back from the FBI anyday now regarding a FOI request I made not so long ago. They initially searched their systems and wrote back in response to my initial FOI request “Subject: Lawrence Kane. We conducted a search of our database based on the information you provided. Our system shows no matches for based on the info provided” or something along thoes lines, I am paraphrasing as I don’t have the letter in front of me. Luckily, I have become friends with someone who’s well known in the ‘Zodiac community’, who also has inerests in Kane, and this person has official documents from one of his prior arrests so she gave me the Case No. so I have resubmitted that in the FOI request. When it comes to Lawrence Kane, nothing seems to make sense at all. I’ll continue in a new comment space below with what I know of Kane many identities, DOB’s, false ID’s and a few other very interesting, and very puzzling, facts.


  259. Alex Lewis says:

    Thank you David, much appreciated. I have always been of the opinion that if you have a very strong opinion or belief regarding Zodiac’s identity, the minute you say “I’m writing a book about it”, that instantly makes it clear “I have a personal agenda in forming this opinion, that being, make money out of it”. For me, i want no book deal, no name in the paper, nor do i wish to feature on one of the countless documentaries. My conclusion that Kane is Zodiac comes after non-biased research, no preconceived ideas, and no wish for one suspect to be more likely to be Z than another. Thank you for noticing that 🙂
    Any questions you have regarding Kane, if i have the answers, i’ll happily answer:-)


  260. David Blair says:

    Watched the film earlier tonight and have been trawling through the internet ever since. The case is as compelling as any I have ever read about. Congratulations on a very well informed and clearly structured website. Its refreshing to read an analysis that doesn’t seek to claim fame for the author. I too believe Kane to be as good a suspect as any as the whole Allen saga seems improbable looking at the nature of the man. I honestly don’t believe the Zodiac killer would be wearing a zodiac watch. Is there anywhere else were we can gain an insight into the life of Kane? If so, sure send me an email. Many thanks and keep up the good work.


  261. Alex Lewis says:

    Thats ok, i accept the apology and appreciate your honesty. I also would agree with you that Gaik, like any other suspect, should not be discounted based on the one or two claims made by Loomis. As i state in the article, i can’t tell the reader for a fact that Kane was and is the Zodiac, and also state that i wouldn’t advise anyone reading my article to assume i am correct without doing their own research. Again, i appreciate you clarifying for the readers that it wasn’t me who made the statement regarding Voigt.


  262. Harry says:

    Yea, sorry, it was not you that made the remark. It was someone named Ryan at

    Sorry about that mistake. I am honestly not trying to discredit you, There is just more to Gaik’s whereabouts than the Loomis statement.


  263. Alex Lewis says:

    Because you did not say specifically where i was alleged to have made that comment, only saying that it was ‘elsewhere’ (Very convenient that), i decided to google the comment “All I care about now, is that Tom Voigt and his minions have nothing to do with the final outcome.” No matter where online something is written, google will find the page if you enter the quote. But wheni googled that sentence it did not match any website or page. The reason it probably did not find any matches is because that comment does not exist. I have no idea why you are trying to discredit me and this page i created, but the fact that you are trying to do it with outrite lies only serves to strengthen my case and page because you have nothing genuine or thruthful to use against me or this page to discredit me and this page, and so you resort to making thing up like that comment. And for the readers reading this page and comment, i also would invite you to google the comment that he claims i said ‘elsewhere’, conveniently falling short of commiting himself to naming the page or site where this comment is located, because there is no place that this comment exists.


  264. Alex Lewis says:

    First of all, congratulations on your propaganda effort there. I have never ever said on any website or page, or anywhere else for that matter “All I care about now, is that Tom Voigt and his minions have nothing to do with the final outcome.” That is a deliberate attempt to try and portray me as someone who is out just to discredit Tom Voigt by any means necessary, and that is complete rubbish. Firstly, ‘minions’ is not a word that i have, nor probably ever will, use. Please provide here a link here in this comment section to the page that you are claiming i said this.

    And as for whether i’m out to try and prove Kane is Zodiac, or disprove Gaik is, this again is another attempt to claim that i am only interested in proving Tom wrong, and that again, is just nonsense. If my motive was to prove Gaik isn’t Zodiac, then i wouldn’t have created a web page about Lawrence Kane, i’d have made one all about Richard Gaikowski and why he is not Zodiac. So I think my motive is clear in the page above, that being that based on what i have found in researching all the top suspects, Lawrence Kane stands head and shoulders above the rest for many reasons that are listed above.

    And to answer you claim of ‘That said, I would not make claims like you did that Gaik was in Albany in December 1968 or in Europe during the Stine murder.’ First of all, your statement implies that I am making the claim that Gaik was in Albany based on nothing and have no evidence for it. In reality, as you well know, the claims are not mine, they are claims made by Bob Loomis, a former colleague & close friend of Richard’s. I have provided the source for that in reply to your first comment, and as is evident in this message section above, you disregarded this and said Loomis has no such letters, even though he’s on film showing them and says “Richard was in Albany at the time of the Lake Herman Road murder”.

    And finally to answer your comment of ‘You can call me argumentative but I am not out to destroy anyone if they post honest and accurate information.’ Well that’s a nice way of saying my page is not posting accurate and honest info, without directly saying it, and you say it in direct reference to my stating that i have claimed Gaik was in Albany in Late 68 when the Lake Herman murders occurred, for which you demanded i supply you with the source of this claim, which i promptly did. The fact you refuse to accept his claim’s and letters as evidence is your problem and not mine. So it comes down to this, I can either believe source A, ie you, someone that never met nor knew Richard at any point, that there is no evidence for Gaik being in Albany just on the basis that you say so or, i can believe Source B, Bob Loomis who knew the subject of this discussion personally both in a professional capacity as well as personal and who has actual letters from Gaik as evidence? It’s not going to be a difficult choice to make on who i would say is the more likely to be correct, is it?


  265. Harry says:

    So is this site is about proving Gaik’s innocent or Kane being the Z?
    I am not just seeing what I want to see. I don’t think Gaik was Z.
    But you obviously have an agenda as you have stated elsewhere that
    “All I care about now, is that Tom Voigt and his minions have nothing to do with the final outcome.”

    I think Tom is an ass also. I feel he is dragging his feet now on Gaik. Tom and his researchers need to focus on Gaik’s whereabouts in December, 1968. Enough of making connections from “The Good Times.” They need to follow up on some of the claims like Gaik being at the painting party.

    That said, I would not make claims like you did that Gaik was in Albany in December 1968 or in Europe during the Stine murder. You can call me argumentative but I am not out to destroy anyone if they post honest and accurate information.


  266. Alex Lewis says:

    Just a quick update, i have had a reply from The FBI Office in San Francisco regarding Rachard Gaikowski and any details they have, weather they investigated him in relation to the Zodiac case etc, and have been told they will supply this info regarding Gaik, but i first need to submit a official FOI request, and this can be done via email, the address for which they have given me. So i’m now going to submit this request regarding Gaik, and any and all details i will publish here in full, if, and when, they are made available to me.


  267. Alex Lewis says:

    I didn’t say the FBI certainly did suggest it, I said that there have been claims made online regarding Gaikowski being cleared by the FBI, but if you stop reading and seeing what you want to see, you’ll notice i said that i cannot confirm this true as the link the on the site referring to Gaik’s apparent elimination as a suspect does not work. Look, you can say he wasn’t in Albany if you wish, thats your opinion. But Loomis says this…

    “Loomis kept a detailed list of the letters Gaikowski sent him from various places in the late 60s and early 70s. They show Gaikowski living and working in Albany, N.Y.”

    And you said, i quote “. His (Gaiks) whereabouts from mid-November, 1968 until the last days of January, 1969 are unaccounted and purely speculation.”

    Well, according to Loomis, the whereabouts of Richard in Jan of 69 is no mystery at all as goes on to say…

    “The next letter arrived in January of 1969, from Ireland, announcing Gaikowski had begun a planned tour of Europe.”

    At the end of the day, your being argumentative it seems because first you comment to ask what source i am using for claiming Gaik to be in Albany, probably believing I don’t have one. So when i give you the source in Bob Loomis on screen declaring what I had said he did, you claim that the source, Loomis, is wrong.

    Then you say that Gaik’s whereabouts are a mystery between late 68 and early 69, while Loomis, who knew Gaik personally and communicated with him quite regularly, claims Gak was in Albany, then went on to Europe in late 68 and Jan of 69. If you want to challenge a claim made by Loomis, then you will have to take that up with Loomis himself. And the source for the quotes above regarding the Albany and Ireland references, is The Martinez News-Gazzette.

    Thats the last post i’ll make regarding Gaikowski on this specific matter.


  268. Harry says:

    The FBI files suggest no such thing. Please show me a link?
    Many FOIA’s have been sent out about Gaik with his death certificate included. There has been nothing found to this date. people have also sent FOIA’s on the Good Times and other Gaik ventures.
    Requests have also been sent to get his passport information. This is not a cheap deal. Nothing came back on this request also.
    There is a chance Gaik was in Europe during the LHR murders but nothing points to him being in Albany.
    You keep ignoring your claim about Gaik being in Europe during Stine? Can you please explain that claim?
    I am not saying your wrong, I am just saying it is premature to make such claims.


  269. Alex Lewis says:

    “Loomis is mistaken.” Funny, that’s what Voigt tried telling me once declaring that after the Taping of the episode for Mystery-Quest, Loomis had recanted everything he said realising it was a mistake on his part.Smelling a rat, I asked him to confirm this on a public forum for everyone. At that point it seems Mr Voigt suddenly developed amnesia and sadly couldn’t remember making such comments about Loomis recanting.

    “If he did have such a letter, Richard would not be a suspect”. Well i have come across reports online that suggest Gaik was investigated by the FBI and eliminated based on their finding of him being in Albany in Dec 68, then him flying to Europe straight after. The link attached to the article that is Gaik’s FBI report but its out of date. So, because i cannot comfirm the comments that Gaik was eliminated by the FBI, i am sending the San Francisco FBI office an email asking if they could comfirm or deny this. I am not a US citizen so i am not able to submit a Freedom of Information request for Gaik’s FBI records. If and when they reply, i’ll post it here.


  270. Harry says:

    Loomis is mistaken. He does not have any letters dated during the LHR murders. In the original chronology Loomis prepared in 2009, he stated he had no letters postmarked 1968. He had some letters that were undated and he figures to be from 1968 but he did not save the envelopes. If he did have such a letter, Richard would not be a suspect. Also, if Loomis did have such a letter, he would have shared it to clear his friend. I don’t think Gaik was Z but I do not like seeing incorrect information out there about any suspect. Thanks for removing that part from your blog.


  271. Alex Lewis says:

    I’ll quote Bob Loomis directly from that clip. “I have letters from him in 1968, when the Lake Herman killings occurred, that seem to indicate he was in Albany, not out here on the West Coast. It would have been impossible for him to be at Lake Herman committing murders, when he was back East“.
    You say his whereabouts are not known in Dec 68, and that would be consistent with him being out of State. You may say you don’t know where he was in Dec 68 but Loomis, who knew him personally, seem’s to know exactly where he was…Albany!


  272. welshchappie says:

    Sure. Bob Loomis, a reporter who worked with Gaikowski at The Morning News Gazette, has a letter that Gaikowski sent him from Albany, NY, in 1968 at the time of the Lake Herman Road attack. You can see Mr Loomis and his letter here (10:45 of the clip)


  273. Harry says:

    Can you please show some proof to your accusations of Gaik being in Albany when a murder took place and also your contention that Gaik sent a postcard from Europe during the Stine Murder? This is all new information to everyone and we need to verify it. Thanks.


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