Lawrence ‘Larry..

Posted: August 23, 2014 in Cold Case, Unsolved Crime, Zodiac Killer identity

 “I sometimes look out the window & wonder just how close We’ve come to Him at times.  We must have been near Him at least Once!”   Capt. Ken Narlow, Napa County Sheriff’s Office.


Above: Lawrence ‘Larry’ Kane.

This article will be split into Two Parts. In the first part, I will concentrate on the evidence that links Kane to The Zodiac Crimes, and why and How Kane initially came to be A suspect in the crimes attributed to The Notorious Bay Area’s Zodiac Killer. All Files and Documents, such as Kane’s arrest record, I have obtained via the Freedom of Information Act and are therefore The Official Record of Suspect Kane as recorded by the United States Dpt. of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

  Part Two of this article will focus on Traumatic Brain Injury.  Kane suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury which almost resulted in His Death when His Vehicle was involved in a head on Collision with a Cement Truck on a Freeway in San Mateo.   Lawrence had life saving surgery to remove debris & repair a compound depressed skull fracture. This surgery subsequently led to the discovery that Lawrence had a severe laceration to His left frontal lobe. I will focus on the Left Frontal Lobe and what Damage in this area of Brain will manifest and show in terms of the symptoms seen.

Most of the Evidence I present here will be Circumstantial in nature, but as one Homicide Detective Commented:   “In today’s World of Crime Investigation, forensic science has advanced to a point where DNA is the standard a Jury will want before they convict. There can be no argument if DNA from a crime scene is matched to a suspect, it is, after all, 99.9% conclusive. Because of this though, We see less and less cases being brought before Courts on a foundation of circumstantial evidence. Sure, One or Two pieces of circumstantial evidence is just that, circumstance. But when you have Ten, Fifteen or Twenty pieces of circumstantial evidence all pointing in one direction & at one suspect, then it’s no longer circumstantial evidence but becomes simply, evidence.”


Kane Mug shot

Above: Lawrence Kane/Kaye/Cane/Klein’s Mug Shot.

Official Records indicate that Kane was born Lawrence Klein to Parents Morris H. Klein and Sarah Benjamin on April 29, 1924 in NY (Although Lawrence Birth Record shows this as His DOB, His FBI Criminal Report and The Nevada Veterans Memorial Cemetery in which His is buried, have His Birth Date recorded as April 26, 1924).  Lawrence joined The US Navy Reserves Core and reached The Rank of Seaman, Second Class.  Lawrence would serve Active Duty in Mid 1943 during World War II.  Toward the end of that same year, Lawrence was Honorably Discharged with ‘Good Conduct Conditions’.

I have been able to obtain Kane’s full Arrest Record from the U.S Dpt. of Justice via the Freedom of Information Act.  In the process of doing so,  I discovered His actual legal name was:  Lawrence KAYE.  He had legally changed it from His given birth name of KLEIN citing His reasons for wishing to do so as:  ‘Beneficial for Employment in My Field.’  See below:

Klein to Kaye

  Despite the legal name change,  Lawrence would adopt a variety of assumed names and Aliases in the proceeding years in a cunning & devious attempt to hide His true identity, as is evidenced in His Arrest Sheet below:

One Suspect – Many Names!

Kane record page 1


   (Online User Galaxie500 is credited with this Marriage Cert. discovery.)

Kane Marriage Cert

Note: For the purpose of continuity, I shall refer to the suspect as ‘KANE’ throughout the majority of this page.


Zodiac as remembered by Don Fouke

Above: Composite based on the Recollection of SFPD Patrol Officer, Donald Fouke, a Cop who got a good close up look at Zodiac and is Himself a trained observer. Don’s Age estimate of Un-Sub being in the 35 – 45 Years range is clearly reflected in the above drawing far more clearly that the standard and circulated ‘Presidio Heights’ Composite of Zodiac.

This is the Zodiac speaking!

  • Description of Zodiac in 1969 as given by Officer Don Fouke: Suspects Age: 35-45.  Height: 5 ‘ 10.  Weight: 180lbs. Medium Heavy Build. Barrel Chested. Light colored hair possibly greying at the rear (Note’s that lighting may have distorted this to simply appear that way).  Below is a document I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act that list the features of Larry Kane:

FOIA Doc.4 Kane Descript

  • On July 4, 1969 around midnight, Zodiac shot Darlene Ferrin and her companion Mike Mageau at Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo. Approx. Forty Minutes thereafter, around 12.40 am, Vallejo Police Dpt. switch-board lit up with an incoming call that Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover answered with the standard: “Vallejo Police Dpt…”  Nancy listened to the male voice on the line as he calmly, in a quiet soft spoken tone, told her: “I want to report a double murder! If you’ll go one Mile East on Columbus Parkway to the public park, you’ll find kids in a brown car…” At this point, Slover realized this was a call relating to the incident that they had been notified of shortly prior to this man calling so Slover, believing this to be A witness calling to report the same incident, attempted to tell the caller with: “Yes, Sir, we are aware of that incident. Could I please get your name and location so that. . . ” The man cut Slover off and continued by stating: “They were shot with a 9mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year. Good-Byeeeeeeeee.”   The next day newspapers printed that a witness had said the offenders vehicle was brown in colour, possibly a Corvair.  Zodiac quickly writes that he is very aware of who this witness was, saying: “The man who told the police that my car was brown was a Negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed. When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car.”  Zodiac was incorrect assuming that it was this man who gave a description of his car as it was actually Michael Mageau, the surviving victim, who gave the cops this info. Either way, just Five day’s after this attack, in which the color and possible make & model of Zodiac’s car were given to police, Lawrence Kane traded his car in. (Kane traded for a 1969 Ambassador # 20A468. This was verified by lease agreement with John Miles & Delta Pontiac).
  • Detective Sergeant Ed Rust of the Vallejo PD, who was second unit to arrive on scene at Blue Rocks Springs, subsequently investigated the case is of the opinion that Lawrence Kane was responsible for the shooting and is the Zodiac.
  • On October 11, 1969 Zodiac shot Cab driver Paul Stine dead in his Cab on a street corner in the affluent Presidio Heights area of the Richmond District in San Francisco. Three young Teenagers were having a party in the residence directly opposite and were witness to the disturbing events as they unfold. Initially believing the driver was simply being robbed, one of them picked up the phone and called the operator (This was just prior to the National Emergency Number of  911 being introduced.  Back in 1969,  if One wanted the assistance of Law Enforcement,  this was achieved by dialing the Operator and  He/She patch you through to your local Police/Sheriffs Agency which was selected   based on Dialing Telephone Area Code.)  A few blocks away, Officers Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms were on routine patrol and had just passed Washington St Intersection when the quiet of the night was broken by their patrol car radio:  “All Units…. Please respond to reports of a Cab driver being robbed and possibly assaulted at the Intersections of Washington & Cherry Streets, Pacific Heights. Subject is at scene and is described as a NMA:  Approx. 5 ‘8 – 5 ’10, Medium Build and is wearing a zipper type jacket and Spectacles. Responding Units advised to approach with extreme Caution as Suspect is Considered Armed & Extremely Dangerous.    (According to the Officers responding & for reasons unknown, the dispatcher allegedly issued an incorrect suspect description as a NMA, or Negro Male Adult rather than the correct White Male Adult. This mistake would prove to have disastrous consequences.)

P. Heights scene as found by Pelissetti

Above: Crime Scene Photo of Cabbie Slaying. I have obscured Paul’s face out of respect.

Officer Fouke, only a couple blocks away when the radio broadcast came over His radio, increased His speed along Presidio Avenue and swung left onto Jackson Street heading up-hill toward Cherry.  Just One block short of Cherry, at Maple Street Intersection, Officer Fouke slowed to a crawl. However, Fouke wasn’t observing the command to ‘STOP’ that was demanded on the Intersections sign a few yards ahead. The Cop had slowed because his attention was diverted over to the sidewalk up ahead just the other side of the Intersection. Present on that sidewalk was A stockily built White Guy that seemed to be walking with a limp, or somewhat of a shuffling Gait, down The Jackson Street’s sidewalk. This White Male was heading straight toward his Patrol Car and away from the direction of the crime scene that was just around the corner. At this point, while Police couldn’t know it, The White Male in their headlights was The San Francisco Zodiac Killer, and He’s walking straight toward them!  The suspect and Patrol Car are separated by A single intersection and police are 75 yards away from capturing the most wanted Man in California and arguably, even the entire Country. . . Zodiac!

Don Fouke POV at Maple

Above: Don Fouke Point of View as Zodiac comes into view..

The man coming down the sidewalk looked up directly at Officer Fouke and then quickly looked down toward the ground to obscure His face from the approaching Cops. Fouke later recalled that as Zodiac looked up at Him, the Two locked eyes for the briefest of moment. The Man, after seeing cops and putting His head down, appeared to panic somewhat and He turned to His left & began climbing a set of  steps that led to a drive/pathway to the front door of Residential Address :  3712 Jackson Street.

Officer Fouke, A trained observer, was asked to look at a photograph of Larry Kane and give His opinion on the possibility of Kane being the Man He saw on  Jackson on Oct. 11 He studied the Man in the Photograph for several seconds, then said: “You know, in the past 20 years or so I’ve been asked to look at hundreds of (suspect) photos, and of all of them, this man (Kane) is the best likeness.”

 (However, In the interest of having no bias for or against any one Suspect, including Kane, Hines then Pushed Don for A more specific answer and asked:  “Ok. . . How Sure are You on a scale of 1 to 10?  One being Nowhere near, Ten being as close to a positive ID that you could possibly be?”  Fouke: “I’d say A Seven or EightThere’s just too many years gone by.

  • Zodiac referred to his victims as “The Boy & “The Girl, when speaking of them in the singular, or as a collective group would tell Nancy Slover they’ll find “Kids in a brown car.” The fact this killer refers to His victims as ‘Boy’, ‘Girl’ or ‘Kids’  is suggestive of Himself not of similar age and Refers to a Boy and Girl because that’s how He sees them and uses the term to distinguish them from Himself an older adult.
  • In  1994, Rider Mcdowell wrote a feature entitled ‘On the Trail of The Zodiac’ in which He played recordings of three Men’s voices speaking in a recorded conversation to Bryan Hartnell. Hartnell was not told One voice was suspect Kane & the other two random men of Similar Age.  Hartnell listened to all Three and stated: “The Third Voice! The Third Voice and his speech pattern is certainly consistent with the voice I heard, although it’s been too long to be certain.” The Third Voice was that of Lawrence Kane.
  • Det. Harvey Hines visited Linda Bowman, the sister of Victim Darlene Ferrin. Linda confirmed that her Sister was in fear of an older man and that she herself had seen him at Darlene’s work place after Darlene pointed him out. She said Darlene was extremely afraid of this man as she’d witnessed him kill another person. Harvey Hines placed 6 photographs in front of Linda and asked if she recognized any of the faces as being the man Darlene was afraid of. One of the photographs was of Kane. Linda studied them for a few seconds before she placed her hand on one of the photo’s, and pushed it to the side and said as she began to cry: “That’s him, that’s the man Darlene was afraid of.” The photo She pushed off to one side was the Mug-Shot of Larry Kane.  Hines Recalls in His Report that Linda claim instantly became much more credible by what She Said Next:  “I remember his smile. I remember it distinctly because it was strange.  When He smiled,  it would only appear on the one side of his face.  It’s weird, looked like the one side of His Face had frozen in place.”  It is important to point out here that the photo Harvey had of KANE was a mug shot photo and Kane was not smiling in this photo so Hines recalls there is no way she could have accurately described this facial paralysis unless she had seen Kane previously and observed him smile. This is absolutely known to be how Kane smiled after the effects Brain Injury He suffered left him Partial paralysis down one side, as can clearly be seen in His drivers licence photo below:

Kane Drivers Licence

  •  In Zodiac’s ‘My Name Is’ Cipher, an anagram of ‘Name Kane’ can be deciphered.

Zodiac My Name Is..

Above: The opening lines of the ‘My Name Is’ Cipher/Letter.  The first four letters  are AENK, an anagram of KANE. There are also three circles with the number Eight in each one. 3 x 8 = 24. KANE was born in 1924.

  •  Kane served active duty for the US Navy reserves during The Second World War, in mid 1943. He had, as standard training, attended radio material school in the same year. According to The Navy’s own Official Personnel Information Bulletin Issue of May, 1943 a RadioMan is trained in Navigation, Send and Receive Naval Messages, Encipher/Decipher Coded Messages.”  This which would have given Kane, at the very least, a basic knowledge of coded messaging.
  •  Paul Stine, the cab driver murdered by Zodiac, is thought to have picked up his killer somewhere in the vicinity of Mason & Geary Streets (This is based on the price the cabs meter had stopped at when found.) Larry Kane lived at 217 Eddy street, 0.3 miles and six-minute walk away from Mason and Geary.

217 Eddy to Geary & Mason

  • Kathleen John, along with her baby, were abducted and driven around deserted streets for hours with her abductor telling her he is going to kill her. Miss Johns jumps from the car when it slows at an intersection. Zodiac made reference in his next letter to a woman and her baby that he’d given a rather interesting ride to. Miss Johns later was shown an 18 picture line up and picked out Larry Kane as her abductor, and in doing so, because of Zodiac’s brag in his letter, identified Kane as The Zodiac.
  • In 1991, Vallejo Police Dpt. announced they had re-opened their investigation into the Zodiac and say their reason for doing so is “A suspect, Larry Kaye, has been developed.”  Vallejo PD also state in this document:  Investigation has placed Kaye (AKA Kane) in the locales where several of the Zodiac’s victims either lived, or were killed.

FOIA Doc No.2

  • Destry Hines, son of the late Detective Harvey Hines, has been kind enough to send me copies of Latent fingerprints lifted from Bryan Hartnell’s vehicle. I am posting these with Destry’s full blessing and knowledge. Again Destry, really do appreciate you taking time to email me these.

Kane Booking Prints

At Lake Berryessa, a few hours before and in the same vicinity as Zodiac would later attack and stab Bryan Hartnell & Cecelia Shepard, Three girls sunbathing report seeing a man watching them from the top of the small hill. They stated that every time they looked at him, he would look away. They described him as around 40 years of age. Good Looking.  5′ 10 to 6′ tall. Brown hair. Stocky build with a round face. In two of the articles below that Kaye is the focus of, the writers refer to Kaye as ‘The Handsome

Suspect’ and ‘Handsome and Flashy’

A big thank you goes to online user Galaxie500 for discovering the three articles below:

Kaye...Kaye featureKaye Hotel Altercation with uniformed cop

Below: A rare occasion in which Kaye uses and is referred to as Lawrence Barton..

Lawrence Barton Prowling Article

  • On Sept 6, 1970 25 year old Donna Lass left her place of employment at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel, where she worked as a Nurse, and simply disappeared. Six Months after Donna went missing, a post-card was sent to the San. Fran. Chronicle that seemed to indicate that the Zodiac had ‘Sought Victim 12’ down in South Lake Tahoe and the only person that authorities were aware of that the card could be referring to was Donna Lass. The post-card came signed with the cross-hair symbol, by now the known symbol of Zodiac.


The morning after Donna went missing,  an unidentified male called both Donna’s employer and landlord to inform them that Donna had left town briefly due to a family emergency. If this were the man responsible for Donna’s disappearance (It is logical to assume that the caller was the person responsible for her disappearance simply because at this point, no one is aware that Donna is even missing. There would only be one person that could know Donna was not coming back and that is the person responsible for her disappearance. Also, what other motive would an unidentified male have for calling Donna’s employer and lying to them in an attempt to buy time before anyone may raise the alarm that she is missing?) then this suggests that the person responsible likely knew Donna, or was familiar with her at the very least, in order for him to know both where she worked and where she lived. At the time, Lawrence Kane was selling Real Estate out of an Office in The Sahara Tahoe Hotel, an Office just down the hall from Donna Lass’s work station. Colleagues of Donna, when asked by Harvey Hines, said that Donna and Kane knew each other.

  • Donna Lass had resided in San Francisco prior to moving to Lake Tahoe, and was employed at Letterman General Hospital which is located on the grounds of the Presidio of San Francisco, right in the vicinity of where Zodiac shot Paul Stine and the last known direction Zodiac was observed heading. Another point of interest is not only did both Lass and Kane move to Lake Tahoe and, as stated above, end up working in the same building as the other, but they both left San Francisco for Lake Tahoe at the same time as each other, in June of 1970.

Below is a part of Harvey Hines Report where Harvey gives us a basic timeline for Donna’s movements and employment as per His findings in His off duty  Investigation into Her Disappearance

Harvey's Report Donna Lass Excerpt.

  •  A circumstantial argument can be made that Kane & Lass were known to each other prior to June of 1970 based on the known facts above. Also, if we assume that Zodiac is responsible for Donna’s disappearance & murder then why not write & declare as such directly? Previously, Zodiac wrote a second letter detailing the Lake Herman Scene when Police publicly questioned the writers claims & in the case of Paul Stine Zodiac sent proof with his bragging confession letter in the form of swatches of Paul’s blood soaked shirt that he ripped from Paul’s body. Is it possible that Zodiac doesn’t claim victim 12 & tell police where he killed her & where she can be found as he’d done with his previous victims because he knew this victim? If he knew Donna & admitted to his, The Zodiac, being responsible for her disappearance & murder then he would know that this would almost certainly result in police wanting to question him as a person who knew Miss Lass. If he knew Donna, it isn’t in his own interest to directly offer that He, The Zodiac, is the person responsible.
  •  Sunday, April 27th, 1974 10:36pm: Red Rock Canyon, Las Vegas, NV.  Dana Lull and Boyfriend Roy Norman Tophigh are sat out on a local lovers lane just West of Charleston Blvd. A second vehicle pulls in behind theirs and illuminates the young couple who are now almost blinded by the sudden bright and overpowering beams of light aimed directly on them, and hear the door of this second vehicle open. A man appeared and had a gun pointed at them. Roy didn’t wait to see what the armed man wanted, fleeing instantly from the Vehicle and hiding in a ditch at the roadside where He watched helplessly as the armed man forced Dana from Her vehicle and into His before driving away. Roy got a good look at the abductors vehicle and quickly dashed to get help. Dana’s car was still in position when police arrived but there was no sign of Dana confirming to authorities that Roy had observed her being abducted.  This was Roy’s description of the suspects vehicle:  White Sports Car. Convertible. Black cloth top. Wire Spoke Wheels. Chrome luggage rack on trunk. Missing grill and Old California Licence Plate. At that time, Lawrence Kane drove a White 1966 MG Sport Car. Convertible. Black Cloth Top. Wire Spoked Wheels. Chrome Luggage rack on the trunk with Missing Grill and had Old California Plates (TDY274)
  • The description of Dana’s abductor given by Tophigh, matches Lawrence Kane.  A month after Lull’s abduction, Tophigh reported to police that he had seen her abductor in The Spring Inn Nightclub, but he had fled before police arrived. According to Alan Dorfman, Kane’s former employer, Kane frequented The Spring Inn Night Club In Las Vegas.
  • Dana Lull’s body was discovered in a mine shaft on Mountain Springs Road in San Bernardino County, CA. Kane, at the time of this incident, lived on Spring Mountain Road in Las Vegas. (Could this be a perverted hint Kane was giving?)
  • One day after Zodiac’s first cipher was claimed to be solved, someone sent a letter to the chronicle that contained a ‘Key’ to unlock the cipher, and gave an explanation in detail how it could be done. The FBI then applied this solution (key) to the cipher sent by Zodiac, and found it to be ” substantially accurate”. The letter that contained the key was simply signed, ‘With best wishes, Concerned Citizen’.  He signs it ‘Concerned Citizen’, a reference, in my opinion, to Citizen Kane.’
  • As a favour to Det. Harvey Hines, Sgt. Pat Adler and Lt. Ron Forbush agreed to take a trip down to Lake Tahoe and visit Lawrence Kane, who was now calling himself Cane, at his Round Hill Village Residence in Zephyr Cove.  Lawrence was Home and allowed the Two into His Condo and the Three had a brief discussion about General Things before they asked Cane if he would be willing to give them a sample of his writing. Cane said He would and proceeded to write his Name, Address, His Mothers name, and finally at the Two visitors request, two pre-determined lines from known Zodiac letters. Cane, strangely noted Hines, Had written His Mothers Name ‘SARAH’ seemingly on impulse without He being requested to do so. His address, as can be seen below, He prints as:  ‘408 McFaul Way, Round Hill Village, Zephyr Cove, NV.‘ One of Two main Zodiac Ciphers is to this day referred to as ‘The 408 Cipher‘ due to the number of letters and/or symbols it contains.

What is claimed to be Kanes writing.

Above: Kane/Cane’s writing ‘sample.’  Some use the example above to try and ‘prove’ Kane/Cane isn’t Zodiac because the handwriting does not match. I have no argument on the writing not matching Zodiac’s, however, when they asked Cane to provide this sample of handwriting, they did so directly after questioning him about The Zodiac crimes. So, Cane knowing why they were there and asking him direct questions relating to Zodiac, he’s now likely to go out of his way to disguise his handwriting. To me, and I realise I may be biased in saying this, but his handwriting above looks forced and unnatural and several independent people I have spoken with previously also state they are of the same opinion. 

Part 2:


    Traumatic Brain Injury 

 L Cane.

“The frontal lobes of the Brain make us more human and less animal. When injury occurs, the balance between intellectual and animal propensity is destroyed.” Steven Igou – Founder of

As said in the opening paragraph of this article, Kane suffered massive head injuries in a head on vehicle collision which resulted in His diagnosed as having suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury to the Left Frontal Hemisphere of The Brain.  Below is the portion of Harvey Hines report where He makes specific mention of this incident:

HH Report of Kane TBI crop

Above: Harvey Hines report relating to Kane’s Car Crash & The Subsequent Brain Injury

 As You see above, the part of Kane’s brain that was badly damaged was the Left Frontal Region/Lobe. This is the area of the brain that controls a person’s speech (tone, pace etc) and Language (How We use words, which words we choose, and the whole basic production of language). The left frontal Hemisphere also control Limb Function and/or motion which will effect the Gait, literally the ability to put one foot in front of the other, and a whole other range of things like control of Mood, Behavior, Response and memory.

The Left frontal Lobe of the brain controls the right side of the body, the right frontal lobe controls the left side of the body thus an injury to Left Frontal Region will manifest as Weakness or Paralysis in muscles on the right side of the body.  To get a very quick and basic understanding of the left frontal lobe’s importance and what damage here will likely mean, Here is a qualified Neurosurgeon briefly discussing the left lobe’s functions, and the symptoms seen if and when Injury occurs to this area:

The following information is quoted directly from The Center for Neuro Skills: Frontal Lobe Brain Injury Website :

The frontal lobes are considered our emotional control center and home to our personality. There is no other part of the brain where lesions can cause such a wide variety of symptoms.  The frontal lobes are involved in motor function, problem solving, spontaneity, memory, language, initiation, judgement, impulse control, and social and sexual behavior.  There are important asymmetrical differences in the frontal lobes. The left frontal lobe is involved in controlling language related movement, whereas the right frontal lobe plays a role in non-verbal abilities.   Patients with frontal lobe damage exhibit little spontaneous facial expression, which points to the role of the frontal lobes in facial expression (Kolb & Milner, 1981). Broca’s Aphasia, or difficulty in speaking, has been associated with frontal damage by Brown (1972).

Another area often associated with frontal damage is that of spontaneous behavior (Kolb & Milner-1981) found that individual with frontal damage displayed fewer spontaneous facial movements, spoke fewer words (left frontal lesions) or excessively (right frontal lesions).

One of the most common characteristics of frontal lobe damage is difficulty in interpreting feedback from the environment. Perseverating on a response (Milner, 1964), risk taking, and non-compliance with rules (Miller, 1985), and impaired associated learning (using external cues to help guide behavior) (Drewe, 1975) are a few examples of this type of deficit.

So, did Zodiac show any sign or symptom that He, like Suspect Kane, was the victim of a severe Brain Injury, specifically the left Frontal Cortex Region? Well, to answer that, let’s turn to surviving victim Bryan Hartnell and What He had to say about His encounter with the armed and hooded Zodiac. Hartnell stated: “I’m trying to engage Him in conversation the whole time. . .  Where you been? where you Heading? What’s the problem? I’m asking follow up questions.  I’m talking to Him the whole time!”

 Brian then commented on the extremely unique way that Zodiac spoke saying:  “He had a very Precise Cadence to His Voice, not an accent but just seemed very slow and measured, you know He said ‘All I want is your Money” and had this very distinct sound about it that I told the police back then that if I ever hear that voice again I’d be able to recognise it. I haven’t heard it again yet but it did have a very unique sound.

Click play to hear Brian Hartnell speaking about this in His own Words, below:

Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover, who answered the call that Zodiac placed to announce He wants to report a double murder saying: “If You’ll go one mile East on Columbus Parkway to the Public Park, You’ll find Kids in a brown Car. They were shot with a 9mm Luger. I also killed those Kids last year. Good-byyyyeeeeee.”  In 2007,Dave Fincher’s ‘Zodiac’ hit the big screen and along with His Big Budget Movie, Fincher also filmed probably the best documentary about the Zodiac case that is available and features so many of the original investigators and the surviving victims. One of the people featured in tjhe Docu. is Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover who, incidentally, also played Herself (voiceover) in Fincher’s 2007 Movie ‘Zodiac.’ Nancy gave Her recollection of the conversation She had with Zodiac on July 5th, 1969 in which She recalled:  “He spoke softly yet in a mature sounding voice.  An emotionless voice that, well, to me it sounded like He had either rehearsed it, or was reading what He was saying. He spoke in a Monotone.”  Hit ‘Play’ below and hear Nancy in Her own words:

So, that’s His speech pattern and the Monotone style cadence He spoke using, but what about Zodiac’s general Gait, limb functions and could He have shown an Impaired ability to respond appropriately to what was taking place around Him, a symptom Neurologists call ‘Situational Awareness Impairment’, or any other associated sign or symptom?  Well, let’s look at SFPDs Donald Fouke, a trained observer, to see if He saw any signs consistent with a possible Brain Injury.  Don states that He recalls seeing the White Male Adult and that He couldn’t say what color eyes He had because Zodiac had was, quote: “Stumbling along. . . like a kinda Semi Limp comes up in My mind because He did put His head down when He spotted the police car.”

Once again, the video will begin at the correct point to hear Fouke in His own words discussing the odd Gait of Zodiac, just hit the play button below:

Michael Mageau, another would be Zodiac victim, stated in His first interview with Police while He was still at the hospital that the suspect emptied his gun into Himself and Dee, and as He walked back to his vehicle to reload, Mike peeked over the rear seats at the shooter who, He remembered, seemed in no rush at all. “He walked back slowly and with his head down.”

Mike Mageau Article

Above: “Surprisingly, he walked slowly and with his head down. He was of stocky build and short, about 5 feet 8,”

Other Associated TBI Symptoms:

Judgement, Awareness and Appropriate Response Impairment.

Patrol Officer’s Armond Pelissetti and Frank Peda were the first Officers to respond & arrive at the crime scene on October 11, 1969 as, in Pelissetti’s own words: “We, fortunately, were very close by when the broadcast came over the radio and so We responded to that corner and did so on Red lights and Siren at 9:55 at night and we got there very quickly.

Zodiac, as the first police cars begin descending on the area and location is still at the cab wiping it down inside and out. We know this because One of the teens who called in to report the crime met Pelissetti as He arrives on scene and told Him that just as His patrol car was coming into view along Washington Street, He was watching the man who had just done this going out of view on Cherry Street turning down and onto Jackson street, where in 20 or 30 seconds time the other unit with Don Fouke & Eric Zelms in will corroborate this was in fact true as they encounter Him coming down Jackson st unaware that He’d just turned off Cherry st, right where their crime scene is.

 This encounter only takes place because Zodiac hangs around the cab after he had just shot and killed it’s driver for a excessive amount of time. He walked away and left  the crime scene literally within A minute or so of Armond Pelissetti pulling upon that very scene. This would mean that there is an overwhelming probability that the Zodiac only left the scene when He did because Pelissetti hit’s the lights and siren on His police car a couple of blocks away from the scene which Zodiac would not fail to hear and be aware that the siren and it’s sound is coming His way. I would even hazard a guess that  Zodiac could audibly hear and sense that the siren was coming from the direction somewhere in or along Washington Street, which is why He Himself opted for and begin walking away down Cherry.

Zodiac leaves the cab and walks down Cherry street and arrives at the final intersection, that being Jackson & Cherry St Intersection. All Zodiac need now do to disappear from the responding cars is walk 10, maybe 15 yards to the other side of the intersection which leads through to a wall entrance straight into the grounds of the Presidio of San Francisco. This, a very vast and expansive area with a lot of foliage is what any would be suspect needs for a successful getaway even when Police are not responding from North, South, East and West but when they are, what was a preferable escape route now becomes absolutely essential if the fleeing offender wants any realistic chance of getting away!  You;d assume that Given the circumstances as they are, Zodiac would have been in a blind panic desperately honing in on the entrance into the relative safety of Darkness.  Does He dash over there and through the wall entrance? No!  He passes up the offer of safety in the unlit shadows of the expansive Presidio Grounds where police are neither present nor heading in favour of walking down Jackson Street’s sidewalk under the street lights with a street that Police Cars will no doubt be responding along and if the cops don’t see Him on the street, then anybody out walking around that area will, not to mention the dozens and dozens of people in the houses that are dotted all along His route of escape!

Him staying on the lit Streets where any police car responding can see Him, citizen walk right by Him or countless Resident’s peering or stepping outside see and get a good look at Him, all these things equate to Zodiac running a gauntlet needlessly. He never made it down Jackson to the next intersection of Maple and end’s up walking straight into the headlight beams of a responding marked Police Patrol Car. Yes, Zodiac got away that night but it was down to His extremely good luck, and not Judgement!  If His judgement is impaired, along with His decision making ability, then what was inexplanable, suddenly has an explanation.

To use a quick analogy. . .

If Your stood waiting to cross a road and the man next to you look’s right then left before stepping out into the path of a Bus going 40MH then your likely to be shocked and confused as to why He stepped out in front of that bus, a bus that You yourself clearly saw coming! I mean, you saw it clearly, it’s difficult to miss a huge metal rectangle on wheels going 40 Miles Per Hour with two big bright lights mounted on it’s front! The Man next to You must be a complete idiot who wasn’t paying attention, you likely conclude. If a third party came up and told you He has severely impaired vision and can’t see anything at distance with clarity, then once again what seemed to be the most illogical thing you’ve seen with no explanation, suddenly makes far more sense now, now that You know why He did not see something that You Yourself couldn’t fail to miss.

Cognitive Problems after Traumatic Brain Injury: Based on Official Research by TBI Model Systems:

After brain injury, a person’s ability to process and understand information often slows down, resulting in their having problems with:

  • Being slower to react. This is especially important for driving, which may become unsafe if the person cannot react fast enough to stop signs, traffic lights or other warning signs. Individuals with TBI should not drive until their visual skills and reaction time have been tested by a specialist.
  • Being slower to carry out physical tasks, including routine activities like getting dressed or cooking.
  • They may have difficulty planning their day and scheduling appointments.
  • They may have trouble with tasks that require multiple steps done in a particular order.

Disinhibition also plays a role in your Actions, Behavior and Your Overall Personality being effected or changed drastically:

 In patients disinhibited behaviour is accompanied by irritability, egocentrism, childishness, stubbornness aswell as tactless, aggressive and abusive behavior.”

Zodiac shows these traits over and over again in his letters. Here are just a few examples:

  • Egocentric:  “The police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them”
  • Egocentric:  “The reason I’m writing to the Times is this, They don’t bury me on the back pages like some of the others.”
  • Egocentric: “Like I have always said, I am crack proof. If the Blue Meannies are ever going to catch me, they had best get off their fat asses + do something.”
  • Egocentric & Childish: “I enjoy needling the blue pigs. Hey blue pig I was in the park — you were using fire trucks to mask the sound of your cruzeing (sic) prowl cars.”
  • Childishness: “Hey pig doesn’t it rile you up to have your nose rubbed in your booboos?”
  • Tactless: “In answer to your asking for more details about the good times I have had in Vallejo, I shall be very happy to supply even more material.”
  • Irritability:  “I have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me.”
  • Aggressive & abusive: “PS. If I do not see this note in your paper, I will do something nasty, which you know I’m capable of doing.”

Secret Pal & Greeting card 2013

Above: Two greeting cards sent by Zodiac with the captions ‘From your secret Pal’ and ‘Sorry to hear your ass is a dragon’, both showing the senders childish and tactless humour.

Disinhibition Continued…

In psychology, disinhibition is a lack of restraint manifested in several ways, including disregard for social conventions, impulsivity, and poor risk assessment. Disinhibition affects motor, instinctual, emotional, cognitive, and perceptual aspects with signs and symptoms similar to the diagnostic criteria for mania. Disinhibition is a process, of whatever aetiology, which results in an individual having a reduced capacity to edit or manage their immediate impulsive response to a situation. Disinhibition is a common symptom following a physical injury to the brain, particularly to the frontal lobe and primarily to the orbitofrontal cortex.

Common Misconception!

 I have personally seen many people use Kane’s Brain Injury as grounds to rule Him out as a serious Suspect citing the obvious (as they seem to believe anyway) retarded like individual who can’t tie His own shoe laces let alone plan the complex Homicides such as they seem to suggest Zodiac’s Kills were seen to involve. This is, put simply, a complete Myth. The truth is that ‘Brain Damage’ is not a recognized diagnosis in Neurology. Brain Damage is a blanket term used for the Overall General term for a whole range of specific injuries.   The reality and truth is, as discovered in researching the level of impairment seen in frontal deficit:  ”

. . . “An interesting phenomenon of frontal lobe damage is the insignificant effect it can have on traditional IQ testing. Researchers believe that this may have to do with IQ tests typically assessing convergent rather than divergent thinking. Frontal lobe damage seems to have an impact on divergent thinking, or flexibility and problem solving ability. There is also evidence showing lingering interference with attention and memory even after good recovery from a TBI (Stuss et al., 1985).”

The fact is, a Criminal Associate of Kane’s spoke to a reporter who was writing an article on Kane’s latest Civil Court Case and they said: “I’ve seen several Civil Suits brought against the Defendant, and My feeling is that He will once again get off this latest Charge like He has the other Civil Actions that brought charges against Lawrence. The  Defendant has an excellent knowledge and understanding of the Civil Law which He’s used to beat all the cases I have seen brought against Him.”

Ataxia Motor Function and Apraxia Speech Disorders:

Acquired apraxia of speech (AOS) is a treatable neurologic, sensorimotor speech disorder that occurs in adults following Brain Illness or Injury.  Apraxia is a general term. It can cause problems in parts of the body, such as arms and legs. (Again, Don Fouke described the man he saw walking away from the Paul Stine murder scene as ‘Stumbling along, a lumbering walk with a limp’). Apraxia of speech is a motor speech disorder.  It is caused by damage to the parts of the brain that are involved in speaking,  and involves the loss or impairment of existing speech abilities. The disorder may result from a stroke, head injury, tumor, or other illness affecting the brain.Apraxia of speech can be mild or severe. People with apraxia may have: Inconsistent errors

Treatment For Apraxia of Speech:  Rate/Rhythm Control.

Rate- and rhythm-control treatments, such as metronomic pacing and metrical pacing, involve manipulation of rate and/or rhythm to improve speech production or reduce symptoms of AOS.  Rhythmic-control treatments usually have involved slowing the rate of speech production in speakers who already exhibit a reduced production rate.

Metronomic Pacing Treatment.

In metronomic pacing, the speaker produces speech at the rate of one syllable or movement per beat of a metronome. Typically, the beat has been set at a rate significantly slower than the speaker’s habitual rate of speech.


Lawrence Kane, aka Lawrence Cane died on May 20, 2010 at the age of 86 in Nevada. Kane was laid to rest in Northern Nevada’s Veteran Cemetery.

Lawrence Cane Grave


So, can I tell you I know for fact Lawrence Kane was The Zodiac? No,  certainly not!

Would i advise readers to dismiss all other suspects based on the above article and my opinions? Again,  I would answer with a very strong ‘No’.

I have authored this page and laid out the case against Lawrence Kaye aka Kane, it’s up to you the reader to form your opinions and come to your own conclusions.  I am not writing this page with any intent to ‘Covert the Masses’ as it were,  I have just put together everything I have been able to get from Official Channels via FOIA etc, along with help and support From Harvey Hines Brother Oliver, and His Son Destry.

Whatever your opinion and/or conclusions are, good, bad or indifferent, after reading this site,  I hope you found the material written here useful and I hope you enjoyed reading and now have a better understanding of Lawrence Kaye and why He was,  is &  does make the Zodiac Suspects Top Five.

 Thank you for reading.

 UPDATE: Watch out for the Upcoming Episode to be ran on The History Channel on Suspect Lawrence Kane. The series will run for Five weeks with as many Episodes and is entitled ‘The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer’.  I was consultant for The Episode featuring Lawrence Kane because, in large part, this page you are reading. Below is the initial email sent to Myself by series producer Bethany…

Screenshot (22)


If you enjoyed reading this page, found it’s content useful or beneficial then I would highly recommend you visit WordPress site Authored by Galaxie500 at the following link/web address:


I want to take a few lines here to acknowledge several people, people who without their help, input and support, this page wouldn’t have been possible:

 Many many thanks to:.

Sandy Betts:  Without you and your help, I don’t think I would have succeeded in securing Lawrence’s full arrest record via the FOIA. Your help with this and other things I am extremely grateful, so thank you.

Oliver Hines, your willingness to contact me and send me Harvey’s full 120 page report is a gesture I cannot thank you enough for. To have your approval on what is written here means everything to me and makes all the effort and researching worth it.

Destry Hines:  To personally have your nod of approval on what I have written here is important to Me and, once again, thank you for your help and material you have given to help.

Online User: Galaxie500: Credit where Credit is due, Forum Member and Online User known as Galaxie500 has made some really interesting discoveries in the form of Old Newspaper reports, article and even one marriage & a divorce Certificate.


 In July of 2015 two positive things happened. The First, Harvey Hines Brother, Oliver, came across Harvey’s full and complete 120 page report on the Zodiac Case and Suspect Lawrence Kane & took time to upload and send the entire report to myself for which, Oliver, I appreciate beyond words.

The Second Positive? My most recent FOIA came back in which I had asked for the release of any and or all suspects listed in the document (seen below) when the privacy laws and Data Protection Act  no longer are applicable to them (ie…They are deceased.)  There are Nine listed redacted Named suspects in the original public release, now, for the first time and exclusively, here are three of these names….

FOIA Resized




 PS, If clicking the above document does not allow readers to see the names clearly then Email me and i’ll send a cropped excerpt or full page re-size version to reader via email.

 Update: Watch this Space. . .

In December of 2015, I sent a third Freedom of Information Request asking for the redacted name that appears in an FBI file to be released, a name that the document states is the name of a person who was Identified as the murderer of Paul Lee Stine and ID’d by none other than a witness at the scene in Presidio Heights. Below is a copy I received from the DOJ in reply to my original request in which they released the name or Robert Hale West, a named suspect in the same document but not the suspect ID’d by witness:


UPDATE: June 7th, 2016: Successfully Given Requested Suspect Name! 

FOIA Page Two Edit01

 The above FOIA has been successful in getting the name and address of the man that a witness Identified as possibly responsible for Paul Stine’s murder. The Suspect was Identified as Xenophon (No E at end of Name,  Misspelled in the Document) L. Anthony. He resided at 3218 Jackson Street, San Francisco in 1969.

Anthony would have been 38 Years of Age in October,  1969.

Don Fouke commended for ‘Brave Actions’

D Fouke Clipping

Quotations. . .

I sometimes look out of the window and wonder just how close we’ve come to him at times. We rattled so many cages and kicked so many bushes along the way. We must have been near to him at least once!”  Capt. Ken Narlow.

He is obviously an intelligent individual. He knows that eventually he will be taken into custody. So it would be best that he give himself up before tragedy is written in blood.” Attorney General Thomas C. Lynch.

“The San Francisco Police could have caught Me last night if they had searched the park properly instead of holding road races seeing who could make the most noise. I enjoy needling the blue pigs. Hey pig, I was in the park and You were using fire trucks to mask the sound of your prowl cars.”  Zodiac then made a prediction that sadly, to this day. is true and accurate when He boasted:

 “The police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them.”  

In Memory of Officer Eric A. Zelms.

I often find myself wishing for the sake of Eric Zelms, that on the night of Oct. 11,1969 there was no blunder in Suspect Description as Black instead of White Male. The reason for this is simple in that maybe, just maybe, when you mentioned the name of Eric Zelms today,  people may have respond with: “Eric Zelms….Oh Yes, I know! Wasn’t  He the Rookie City Cop that apprehended California’s Infamous Zodiac Killer?” Sadly however, this was just not meant to be.

A Senseless, Cowardly Act!

Eric had no way of knowing it, But at the very moment He and Don Fouke encounter The Most dangerous man in California & probably the entire Country, Eric has less than three months to live.  After coming face to face with a ruthless and armed Zodiac Killer and surviving without a scratch,  it seems almost anti-climactic that just Three Months later in the early hours of News Years Day,  Zelms should be the victim of a senseless act of cowardly murder.

 It began when Eric and His Patrol Partner were on break in a diner when the sounds of Glass breaking came from outside. Eric rushed outside to investigate, His colleague oblivious to the events outside the Diner, He’s in the Men’s room answering the call of Nature. Eric quickly observed a front shop window has been smashed at the front of the Second Hand Store right next to the Diner. Eric was seen quickly assessing the situation before telling onlookers to ‘Stay Back’ and then climbing up through the broken window and into the shop’s dark display room.

 An awkward silence fell over the scene. Then Eric was heard Identifying Himself:  “Police Department! If you in here, come out now and do it slowly with your arms in the air……” And it was then that a second voice announced: “Ok, Plase Don’t shoot, I’m here and  I am unarmed Officer” as the voice stepped out from the shadows grabbing Eric’s full attention, His weapon trained directly on this man in front of Him. Eric couldn’t know this was a ruse to divert His attention and Gun over in one direction as a second assailant stepped out from the shadows to violently punch Eric, a blow that caught Him completely Off-Guard sending Him reeling a few steps backward.  Despite this blindsided and unsuspected attack,  Eric managed to stay on His feet. However, before He could  regain His composure, both men converged on Him.  Struggling to overpower Eric & achieve the upper hand while outnumbering Him Two to One, they still could not manage get the better of Him until, in the struggle, Eric’s Revolver is lost and tumbles to the ground. One of the two violently pulls away from the struggle breaking free of the cop’s grasp and wastes no time in retrieving Eric’s Service revolver from the floor.

 Witnesses would later report hearing Two muffled sounds, similar to firecrackers. A few seconds thereafter,  The Police Officer who went in the shattered window, came staggering His way back out through it clutching His Chest and said to the onlookers: “Get My Partner, I’ve been shot!”

Those were the last Six words Eric would ever say. Eric then collapsed in among the shards of broken glass on the sidewalk where He died almost instantly.

  Zelms News Headline

  Eric was survived by a Wife and their infant Son.  He was was just 22 years old.

 Rest in Peace, Officer Eric A. Zelms.

Eric Zelms

Officer Down Memorial Page, Eric Zelms:


Let Justice be Done, Though the Heavens Fall.

Above:   A Maxim of Law that signifies a belief that no matter the circumstances and/or the consequences, justice must be done even if the Heavens have to fall as a result.

No matter who Zodiac is/was, Kane or another, I hope one day soon that Justice is found for David Faraday, Betty-Lou Jensen, Darlene Ferrin, Celelia Shepard & Paul Stine so that after almost half a Century in Waiting, they can finally rest in peace.

Thanks for stopping by and please feel free to comment below both positive and/or negative comments and observations Accepted and published.

Page information here researched, written & published by Alex Lewis.

All Rights to page and Information on this page are reserved and owned by Alex Lewis. No reusing or copying of this page allowed without owners consent.

Anyone wishing to contact Me can do so via Emailing Me at the following Address: and please put the subject as RE: LAWRENCE KANE to ensure I don’t overlook/miss the email.

Thank You for stopping By.


  1. Phil Tate says:

    Very interesting work, Alex. Glad I found your site! You make a persuasive case for Kane as the Zodiac. I would like to respectfully suggest, however, that if you add up all the possible effects of traumatic brain injury you suggest plagued Larry Kane, you’d likely have an individual too cognitively and/or behaviorally impaired to plan and carry out the murders, produce the ciphers, and coordinate the campaign of terror as did the Zodiac. For example, you noted “frontal lobe damage may impair your attention span, motivation, judgment, and organizational capacity.” It often results in poor impulse control, disinhibition, impaired mental flexibility, perseveration, impaired abstract reasoning, and deficits in the ability to plan and initiate tasks. A person suffering this degree of cognitive impairment is unlikely to have been sufficiently functional to be the Zodiac. This does not mean Larry Kane was not the Zodiac. Recovery from severe TBI can be quite variable, but without access to medical records, it’s hard to determine what type of long-term cognitive deficits he might have had or to what degree he recovered. But the brain injury thing cuts both ways. The more impairments he might have had, the less likely it is he could have done it. For the record, I practice neuropsychology and have done many evaluations of persons who have suffered TBIs. I enjoy your site and look forward to reading more!

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Very interesting work, Alex. Glad I found your site! You make a persuasive case for Kane as the Zodiac.”

      Thank you Phil, appreciate it. That’s all I have tried to do is make a case for Kane as a genuine Zodiac suspect.

      you’d likely have an individual too cognitively and/or behaviorally impaired to plan and carry out the murders.”

      What are you basing your belief that Zodiac planned each murder with detail on? The attacks He carried out argue for the ‘crime of opportunity’ rather than anything He did, or even had the ability, to plan for. Tell me, how does one plan to kill David and Betty at that place, or any other teens at that location for that matter, when it’s not possible to know if anyone will be at that location? I can plan all I like to assassinate David Cameron tomorrow by shooting him outside my house and that will have no impact or change the fact that I can plan for this all I like, David Cameron is not going to be outside my house tomorrow so it is going to be a complete waste of time.

      If anything, these crimes carried out by Zodiac appear to be crimes of Opportunity where the victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The offender seems to have acted on impulse more than anything because He can’t plan to kill anyone at Lake Herman Rd turn out area because He cannot know if anyone will be there and the opportunity present itself. It seems, to me at least, that He’s simply driving around with the intent to kill and happens upon a couple parked in an area that is dark and secluded so he stops. He can’t plan that, the same way He couldn’t plan to stab anyone at specific location at Lake Berryessa because He doesn’t know if the opportunity will present itself and if the potential victims can be found in a suitable place without being seen by others at the Lake, which is probably why witnesses reported seeing a man both driving and wandering around the Shores of the Lake for at least an hour before Bryan and Cecelia even arrive at Berryessa.
      There are two types of killer, organized and disorganized, and Zodiac doesn’t really fall nicely into either.

      Also, Zodiac thoroughly planned the Presidio event and this time He can tell where and when the victim will die because He picks a cabbie (probably after his frustrating effort 2 weeks previously that saw him wandering around Lake Berryessa for hours while he waits for a suitable couple to take up residence in a suitable spot.)
      Hartnell said himself it was ‘A Spur of the moment’ decision to go to Lake B at the last minute so how Zodiac can plan to attack victims at the spot He did when the victims themselves didn’t know they were going to go there until the last minute is beyond me.

      Anyway, first thing He does in this well planned scenario of the Presidio Heights murder is end up at the wrong Intersection. This is a minor thing, the show must go on! So, Z shoots Paul at Washington and Cherry instead of the planned Washington and Maple and now has to backtrack over ground he’s just covered in the taxi. But no problem, He has planned this so well that upon his escape from the scene He wilfully and consciously ignores the immediate entrance into the Presidio that is at the Cherry and Jackson Intersection knowing by now that Cops are responding (Armond said He was close to the scene when the radio call came in and that He hit the red lights and siren and responded to that corner) and instead turns right onto Jackson Street, walks down the hill passed house after house after house under the street lights before walking directly into an oncoming cop car! And this is a well thought out, thoroughly planned event is it?

      • Phil Tate says:

        Alex – I agree that most of the Zodiac’s murders were crimes of opportunity. To my understanding, he largely trolled for random victims. But crimes of opportunity do not necessarily denote impulsive behavior. The Zodiac planned to commit murder and searched for suitable opportunities to do so. We don’t if or how many times he searched without success. Of course he cannot plan out or control all of the variables involved (humans and murder, you know) and he must react to the situation that develops. I am not a serious Zodiac researcher as are you, Alex. I don’t know if he stopped at the the wrong location with the Stine murder and what difference that makes. That’s your area of expertise. What I can comment on in an informed manner is the neuropsychology of traumatic brain injuries, since I started doing neuropsychological evaluations with TBI patients in 1993. I can tell you how the constellation of symptoms you assign a particular subject would likely affect that person’s level of function and their ability to carry out certain tasks. I am offering you the benefit of my training and experience so that you can make the best case possible for your suspect. I’m not trying to shoot you down. I’m simply suggesting there is problem in your case conceptualization that might require further tweaking.

        Beyond the murders, the Zodiac wrote letters and created ciphers he mailed to various newspapers to create a climate of fear, which required calculation, organization, abstract reasoning, focused attention, and deferred gratification. If a person’s cognitive ability is sufficiently compromised by severe frontal lobe dysfunction and other sequelae from a severe TBI, it would have been extremely difficult for such a person to plan out all of these things and carry them out in a coherent and organized fashion. This doesn’t necessarily rule out Kane as a viable suspect. Kane could be the Zodiac even with his history of TBI but it likely depends on the level of recovery he achieved. But if he remained too compromised by severe TBI and frontal lobe injury, it’s unlikely he possessed the cognitive resources and behavioral control necessary to have pulled off the whole package: the murders, letters, and ciphers.

        As a personal anecdote, I lived in the SF Bay Area as a youngster during the time of the Zodiac murders. I didn’t think about the Zodiac too much until I saw a magazine in a barber shop that depicted the Zodiac in his hood at Lake Berryessa. It frightened me and attuned me to the climate of fear the Zodiac created, which seemed to extend to everyone in the SF Bay Area except my parents. They were not at all concerned about my lengthy school bus ride home everyday (El Sobrante to El Cerrito) after the Zodiac’s threat to shoot little kiddies as they bounced off the bus. I was a big kiddie, but I didn’t think the Zodiac would have made such discriminations when doing his thing. My parents said, “Zodiac or no Zodiac, you’re riding the bus!” Hoo-boy, those were some long bus rides. When we moved to WA State in 1970-71, I was very much relieved to leave the Zodiac and the turbulent climate of the SF Bay Area behind.

        Keep up the good work, Alex. I look forward to reading more.

  2. EndOfTheWorld says:

    To me the whole brain damage thing is somewhat of a red herring. OK, some doctor gave an analysis. So what? Doctors are not infallible–and brain damage can come and go. Larry Kane apparently worked at sales jobs which require thinking. Fact is nobody knows how much his brain was damaged. Another point—I was looking at the zociackillersite ( which they won’t let me on ) and in the WHY NOT LARRY KANE thread there is a lot of back and forth about how heavy Z is in the witness description. There was another witness often ignored–Cecilia at Lake Berryessa. She talked to the first LE guy on the scene before she lost consciousness and he asked her in detail about his weight. This is on the documentary on youtube–the good one. She indicated he was big. I won’t try to quote from memory right now but check it out on the video. Out of all the witnesses she got perhaps the best look–daylight, up close, over a period of time while he approached and then did his morbid business. She saw him more than Bryan even who wasn’t looking at first. Also, apparently got a good eyewitness from the three females who were sunbathing. They checked him out well enough to decide he was good looking. They also said stocky. OK this is not definite—but I would say almost definite—more definite than Katherine Johns story, more definite than Michael Mageau who with all due respect is all over the place with his various descriptions, including a positive ID of ALA, apparently. And more definite than the kids at SF who apparently weren’t sure as the composite sketch was changed.
    PS. Maybe it was the first detective on the scene, not the first LE guy—-anyway he’s on the video.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      I know what Cecelia said according to Dave Collins on the Documentary you refer to, Cecelia is alleged to have said the man was, quote: “Overweight. Bulky Looking.”
      And I’m not claiming that Kane had all the symptoms I listed above, I am simply saying these are symptoms that are associated with TBI and Larry Kane had a TBI with damage to the left frontal lobe, a lobe that controls speech and regulates limb function and therefore can effect the gait of a person. I am not claiming to know Kane had this symptom and that is why if you read the opening of the article I specifically say: “The second part of this article I will dedicate to Frontal Lobe Brain Injury (Kane suffered Frontal Lobe Brain Injury in a vehicle accident) and list the symptoms associated with people who have Frontal Lobe damage and show how they are extremely consistent with the known behaviour of Zodiac. Most of the Evidence I present here will be Circumstantial in nature.”

      Where did I say Kane had these symptoms specifically, and so did Zodiac? I only say what the witnesses reported like Fouke ‘Subject walk with a shuffling lope” and Hartnell’s “Precise cadence to his voice” etc. I say this is consistent with a person who has suffered a TBI specifically to the Frontal Region of the Brain. I don’t make the claim “Zodiac walked oddly one witness said, Kane had a brain injury with front lobe damage therefore I have solved this case, goodnight.”

      • Alex Lewis says:

        This is what Dave Collins said Cecelia said. The same Dave Collins that later admitted that Cecelia had also told him she had seen the man unmasked and could and did Give Collins a description of what the man looked like a description which, out of Dave Collins own mouth, He said He did not report or tell anyone at the time back then because, quote “I didn’t think it was important.” Your looking for an unknown Male wanted for multiple homicides and wreaking havoc on your patch by killing at will and causing panic and fear with nobody knowing who He is and Collins says the description of this man is something that “I didn’t think it was important?”

        Q. What does the offender look like?
        A. Don’t know, Couldn’t really care either to be honest.
        Q. Well, is He White…,Black….?
        A. White…..Except when He is in the vicinity of the Richmond District’s Presidio, then He suddenly changes colour, for a short time anyway.
        Q. Age?
        A. early 20’s to mid 40’s.
        Q. Weight
        A. Fat, overweight, bulky and blubbery pot belly. Suspect must then have worked out like an absolute freak because just two weeks after this fat overweight description, He shows up in Pacific Heights and is now described as “Medium to Stocky Build, thick set guy and Barrel Chested to go with it! No wonder He has trouble walking what with the 2 week diet programme that sees him lose 40 to 60 lbs and go from a fat bloke with pot belly to a well built stocky guy who now sports a barrel chested physique.

        Q. Hair?
        A. Light brown, dark blonde with red tint going grey at the rear. Wears this rainbow in the style of a crew cut and has a widows peak hairline.

        He’d blend in and look like any other person, no wonder they never caught him *Tongue firmly in cheek.*

        In all seriousness, I make this point to warn against using the composite for a basis in anything you may be arguing. I’ve lost count of the times someone has said ‘Yes but the description is just like him’ to which the other will reply “Which description? Presidio or Berryessa?” Both of which look nothing alike. And the presidio sketch in my opinion isn’t worth the paper it is sketched on and I’d urge caution to anyone using it as a reference point to any suspects. Why? What’s my grounds to suggest this? Don Fouke’s comments. First He says “One Month later, when the drawing came out and was posted on the wall, He (sketched composite) looked similar to the man that I had seen on Oct 11.” Only similar? Don elaborates… When recalling an inaccurate claim in Graysmiths book, Don comments, “I never spoke to Toschi that I personally remember. He may have been the Insp. who came out and asked me about the composite and I told him the suspect was older and heavier” meaning older and heavier than he looks in the composite. So, if the age and weight or facial structure is wrong, what is left about the composite that we can rely on? He had Horn Rimmed Specs, that’s about it.

  3. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I agree as far as the SF composite is concerned— I agree it is given too much importance. Probably because this was the BIG CITY police dept. and the BIG CITY newspaper so people tended originally to give it more credence than anything emanating from little Vallejo, Napa, Solano County etc. The kids that saw the taxi were just kids, that’s the thing. They didn’t have enough life experience to realize that they should look at the criminal in detail so they could tell the police so they could track him down. They were doing good to just make the phone call to report the crime which they thought was only a robbery. Z was in the car most of the time. It was night time. Apparently the three kids didn’t agree on what they did see so the composite was changed. So let’s put “the three kids” in a group we will call UNRELIABLE WITNESSES. Who else belongs in this group? 1) Michael Mageau—-He basically just says “Anything is possible.” For example “It was a small compact car—but it could have been a Cadillac–I don’t really know.” His physical description cannot be believed in my opinion because his brain is not functioning correctly. 2) Katherine Johns–this incident was never proven to be the Zodiac. In his letter he gave no info that only the perp would know.
    OK, now we will have another group—let’s call this group MORE RELIABLE WITNESSES. Who belongs in this group? 1) Cecilia as interviewed by Collins. You can criticize Collins for not getting the facial description better but at least he got the size. Maybe he was hoping she would survive and eventually go to an artist for a composite. 2) Foukes, He said Z was bulkier than the composite. Said he looked like Larry Kane. Trained observer, a cop. 3) the three female sunbathers at Lake Berryessa. The guy they saw acted like Z. I think they said he was moving around checking them out, then he left. Correct me if I’m wrong–I think they were sunbathing. What does this activity entail? The word “sunbathing” is almost a euphemism for the time-honored ritual of laying around semi-nude to check out members of the opposite sex while they check you out. Yeah, OK, soaking up some rays but also visually inspecting any members of the opposite sex that may enter the vicinity. LOOKING AT MEN was most likely an integral part of what they were doing—in the absence of any evidence they were lesbians. OK it is not an absolute certainty the guy they saw was Z, but whoever it was they agreed he was bulky. Also handsome. This word indicates they looked at him for a while. What might have happened is they gave Z some indication by looks or gesture that he could approach them as the horny chicks they probably were, but this wasn’t the kind of action the sicko Z was looking for, so he left. Or he might have decided 3 victims was just more than he could handle.
    So there you have it. Yes, it’s true that Z couldn’t weigh both 160 and 200 simultaneously, so we have to decide which witnesses are more credible. Bulky is more believable.
    BTW, I’m new at this so if I make any gross errors, please let me know. It’s just that I’m in a hurry to get this case solved quickly so rather than go back and double check everything I’ll just let you all correct my mistakes. This case has been going on too long already—let’s get it solved and get it over with, and move on.

    • EndOfTheWorld says:

      I will make a point on a different POI, Mr. X (the Norwegian tycoon). Somebody commented he might have just stepped out to see what the noise (sirens) was all about. If so, it would be very smart to bring your little friend (the dog) with you. If it was indeed a poodle perhaps he wasn’t physically overpowering or threatening but still his instinct is to protect his master and he would hear or smell any person approaching quicker than the master. This jibes with the tycoon being a very smart guy who made a fortune in a tough business. I don’t care what Rodelli’s “famous profiler” says, can he name one other very wealthy guy with absolutely no police record who was a serial killer?

      • EndOfTheWorld says:

        Though I cast well-deserved aspersions on the efficacy of the Norwegian tycoon as a suspect, that doesn’t mean I think everything was above-board and professional in the SFPD handling of the Stine murder. To paraphrase Armand: “I’d like to believe Officer Foukes is honest, but what he says he told me is contrary to what my ears heard him say. Oh, well, it’s all conjecture at this point.” They can’t both be telling the truth, and probably neither is doing so. BTW, is there any hard evidence (ie. a paper trail) that black male was the first thing coming over the radio? Another possible sign that something was fishy was Officer Zelms getting killed soon afterward after going in alone to a burglary. This is one way cops were known to get rid of unwanted guys. (eg. Frank Serpico, who was sent in first and not backed up.) Just saying maybe–MAYBE–Zelms was getting ready to talk. I have no proof of this obviously but the amount of respect I have for the SFPD of this time period is so low that I’ll go ahead and throw that out as a possibility. It’s significant that Zelms was a rookie so in the beginning he had to go along with what the veteran officers were cooking up but probably he had second thoughts later. At the very least he would probably have a third version of what happened to go along with Foukes’ and Armand’s.

      • Alex Lewis says:

        Mr X aka Kjell Qvale claims He wasn’t in Presidio Heights that night, nor even the United States but was, He said, in England on Business. Makes sense I suppose for Kjell to be over In the UK/Europe considering His Multi-Million Dollar Empire was in made from European Sport Vehicles Importation.

        In His public version. In His on screen interview in 2007, He states this encounter happened at the corner of Jackson and Maple while Kjell was out on Maple Street walking His pooch.

        In Private conversations over the telephone that weren’t as Private as Armond assumed, but actually recorded Amend Pelissetti, I refer to Him as Amend rather than Armond on account os His amendments to this version of what happened that night where He Amends this version of events to one where He gets to said Jackson and Maple Intersection area and, looking to His left toward a Driveway and Residence, see’s Kjell standing in the front yards driveway area and, quote: “He Wasn’t doing anything, He was just sanding there. I called this guy over to Me and then Kept Him around with Me for a while where I could keep an eye on Him.”

        Armond states that the driveway Kjell was stood on was that of His own home’s. But in His reports and on screen interviews He always claims to only ever go as far as Jackson and Maple Intersection before turning on His heels and going back up the hill and this is a problem as Kjell lived at 3636 Jackson, passed the intersection a couple houses the other side thereof.

        I’ve had many conversations with Mike Rodelli who publicly said He believed X to be Zodiac and got his theory published and endorsed by some very credible people. As a result, Armond Pelissetti called Rodelli and told him “Your suspect has an alibi, He was not in the area on that night.” Rodelli had already heard the phone call Armond had had with Butterfield in which Armond stated it was Kjell He saw that night. Kjell himself got wind of Rodelli’s claims and Kjell rather oddly, or arrogantly depending on your view, invited Rodelli to come personally see him. Rodelli went to meet Kjell and Kjell looked him in the eye and said He was not Zodiac and that He was not in Pacific Heights that night. Rodelli knew Pelissetti had said otherwise to Butterfield. Pellissetti seemed upset himself that Rodelli had gone public with what He had told Butterfield in confidence because Pelissetti said of Rodelli: “If that jerk from New Jersey is right, He’s going to make me look like a right Ass!”

        Mike R doesn’t need to do that Mr Pelissetti, You do A good enough job of that on your own.

        The First Two Units to respond and arrive that night were piloted by Amendment Pelissetti and Donald Fouke-up!

        PS: You said ” Another possible sign that something was fishy was Officer Zelms getting killed soon afterward after going in alone to a burglary. This is one way cops were known to get rid of unwanted guys.”

        While I am not big into conspiracy theories, this idea may not be as far fetched as it may sound at first because the offenders who killed Eric served a couple of years then were released. I don’t remember off hand the exact number of years they served but I know it was less than 5. Five years for the cold blooded Aggravated murder (because it was in the course of a robbery) of A Police Officer! I’ve never ever heard of such a sentence for killing a cop in the course of a crime.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      The Age of the suspect is assumed, even accepted by the vast majority, to be late 20 to early to mid 30’s. Now for one moment lets forget Kane exists, lets take him out of the equasion completely.If you asked me do I agree and go along with the majority in a belief that He was in late 20 to mid 30’s? No. And that’s why I say take Kane out of the picture, because I know people will say “Well you would say you believe his age to be 35 to 45, because it fits Kane’s age perfectly.” Kane is nothing to do with it and if SFPD announced tomorrow that by way of DNA, Finger and palm prints, handwriting and shoe size that Kane was most certainly not Zodiac, then I would not change my belief in the slightest that the killer was aged 35 to 45. I know I am not in the ‘Safe Majority’ with this belief but that’s fine, my own opinion and belief is enough for me and I base it on the following:
      Zodiac’s fondness of Theater and quotes from G&S The Mikado.
      His knowledge of cipher construction/encryption, Radian’s,
      His referring to victims as ‘Kids, boy and girl, and also teenagers’ suggest He sees and refers to them as kids because that’s what they are to him as an older, middle aged man..

      The only person who described Z as young looking who did so from seeing him unmasked was Mageau, who at the time He looks at Zodiac (and only from a side profile view point) He had had what Mageau himself described as a ‘Big beaming flashlight that was blinding’ and He’d also been shot several times, once in the face. How well can you see a person when your in a dark unlit parking lot, just had a blinding light shone in your face before being shot several times before you catch a glimpse of your attacker from side on view? And when this young man rang Slover to inform Her He’d just been out doing his thing at Blue Rock, slover reported that the She could distinguish no trace of an accent in suspects voice, but that his voice was, quote ‘Mature.’ Mature voice to me does not hint at young man,but adult with fully developed deep voice as described in report, softly spoken but forceful.

      And finally, Don Fouke. Not only did he give the age of suspect to be 35 to 45, but when Toschi asked him to look at the Richmond Station Composite of the suspect (the one we all know) Don told Toschi that the man looked similar yes, but that the person was older and heavier than He’s depicted in the composite.

  4. EndOfTheWorld says:

    I see how Kane’s frontal lobe damage jibes with the weird speech pattern and maybe the inconsistent errors. I’m not sure if a guy who talks real weird could be a real estate salesman, or an auto salesman. These guys have to be pretty slick talkers and also pretty slick with paperwork (ie. no errors). Was Kane actually a real estate salesman? Any evidence he actually sold some houses, or was did he simply list his occupation as “realtor”?

    • EndOfTheWorld says:

      Also if he was actually working as a real estate or car salesman he came into contact with hundreds of people from the public who got to know him somewhat, at least within the limits of the transaction. From the time it became known he was a poi of the zodiac case dozens of people should have come forward (and even now should be coming forward) saying “yeah, I remember that guy—he showed me two little houses but I decided not to buy.” Or something along those lines. If he was a salesman he wasn’t a shy recluse, nor could he have had a serious speech impediment.

      • Alex Lewis says:

        EndOfTheWorld, in regards to all the above you mentioned, I wish I could tell you I had all the answers regarding Kane’s Job, Brain Injury & the severity thereof and other such info but, unfortunately, I don’t. I can and will answer where I do know facts relating to what you ask or something your skeptical of and so Here is what I do know in answer to your posts:

        According to Harvey Hines Report, when Harvey Called Alan Dorfman to ask what Kane’s position or role of Employment was, Dorfman was extremely evasive and would only tell Hines Kane was a Public Relations Officer. Dorfman Pointed out that Kane was not a licence’d real estate Agent.

        Why would, upon learning of Kane as A possible suspect, former clients of Kane come forward to tell police “Kane sold me a property once?” That isn’t going to have anything to do with him being a potential serial killer. And that’s if they recognized his name because He was not selling real estate as Lawrence Kane but Larry Cane. If I sold you a home today as Alec Hewish then a year down the line my name flashes up on tv as Suspect ‘Alex Lewis’ you are not going to think of me as the person that the media is referencing.

        His accident that resulted in his suffering a TBI was extremely serious and, Harvey recalls, ‘Kane almost Died and required numerous extensive surgeries to repair his skull

  5. EndOfTheWorld says:

    So in fact he wasn’t a realtor. You can’t sell real estate without a license. What I meant by people “coming forward” is that the realtors I’ve dealt with are very busy people—they’re dealing with people either by telephone, e-mail or in person all day long. So you could go to the Tahoe area and ask around and find somebody who at least remembered talking to him—to verify the slow cadence referred to by Hartnell. “Public relations officer” can cover a lot of ground. Could mean he was occupied primarily with the written word, so his weird speech wasn’t observed by the general public. And we know the Z, whoever he was, liked to write. Also I guess it’s possible that Dorfman gave him a regular job but also called on him for special assignments (eg. breaking kneecaps, killing people, etc.) when the occasion arose. Thanks for the info, Alex. BTW is the Hines story in a book?

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Well I do know that People with Frontal Brain Injury often will prefer, and official studies have confirmed this, to write in letter form rather than to communicate verbally because they feel more comfortable because their speech is something they can no longer use to express themselves or to simply say what they want to say and so a lot of TBI sufferers revert to communicating in written form where it less frustrating and they feel more comfortable.

      Dorfman said Kane wasn’t selling real estate for him, but I don’t know how much trust I’d put in that, He was associated with Organized Crime after all. And Kane was refused a Licence to drive by the DMV in CA because He was alleged to have suffered from Seizures post Brain Injury and yet Kane had not one but Two drivers licences in the names Klein and Cane both of which were fraudulent. Well given He worked for a man who was siphoning off Millions of dollars to his Mafia associates then maybe Kane got these licences from one of these Organized Crime figures.

      And finally, is Harvey Hines story in a book? Not as we speak no, and I don’t really want to say too much here on public forums, but I happen to know that n the very near future, one may be fourth coming. But again, I don’t have specific details so whether this book is ready to be published and will ever be, I have no idea. That’s all I am really willing to say on that at the moment without speaking to third parties and getting permission from them to say anymore.

      • EndOfTheWorld says:

        So can we conclude that Larry Kane himself was some kind of low-level mobster? This would explain why he didn’t seem to have any friends—-if his friends were Mafioso, of course they have a code of silence and don’t talk to reporters, etc. Also although we know Spinelli’s primary motive for spinning his preposterous ALA tale was to save his own ass, could be at the same time he was protecting the mob from bad publicity by throwing everybody off the trail of fellow Mafioso Kane. Or more likely, if Spinelli and Kane were both FBI informants , Spinelli was making up this BS to save the FBI from bad publicity.

        Regarding Larry Kane, the question remains: “Who WAS this mystery man?”

      • Alex Lewis says:

        “So can we conclude that Larry Kane himself was some kind of low-level mobster? This would explain why he didn’t seem to have any friends—-if his friends were Mafioso, of course they have a code of silence and don’t talk to reporters, etc.”

        Well In one of the press articles above in which Kane and an accomplice steal $17,000 worth if Jewelry from a heiress it states that Kane’s accomplice is a know crime figure but for whatever reason, the paper does not publish his name. Also, I do know when Kane was spoken to by cops He confirmed he was formerly employed by Allen Dorfman and Kane said Dorfman is ‘The Juice’ of Organized Crime in NV.

    • Sandy Betts says:

      Kane did work in real estate that is a fact. I met someone who knew Kane and verified that he worked in real estate. I also found transactions of Kane’s, showing a sale to a couple from Davis and where they moved.
      My suspect is like Kane’s clone, so much so that it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that Kane didn’t die, but faked his own death.Because I still see the man who stalks me who looks just like Kane.
      His printing is a match to Zodiac’s and he talks as if he is reading in a monotone voice.He has the barrel chest and his shoe size is 10 and a half. His hair was brown and curly in 1968,wears glasses, hazel eyes, slightly paralized on one side of his face.Scars along his jaw line like K Johns said her abductor had.

  6. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Yeah, apparently he was just a career criminal who sometimes listed his occupation as realtor or car salesman. Does anybody know what he did for money when he lived in SF? Did he actually sell cars in Alameda? I know these questions may be virtually unanswerable at this time but this is what I am wondering.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Well Kane without doubt had Mob connections, but was He keeping the code of strict silence that we know La Costra Nostra’s rule book had as Rule 1 on page 1? Well, lets just say that Kane, as you pointed out,seems to be in one State the one minute, then He up’s and leaves and shows up in another State using a different name and in San Fran He wasn’t employed officially that I can find but…

      One article that Kane is the focus of clearly states that the charges against Kaye have been dropped and the charges that do remain have been reduced because, the article states, Kane had agreed to ‘Help cops out.’ So,you ask what He did for cash in S.F etc, I have for a long time suspected that He was a paid informant for the FBI, hence his being all over the US moving continually and always changing names when doing so.
      I think the FBI knew Cane could get close to Allen Dorfman and He may have gone to Tahoe originally to try and get evidence on Dorfman for the FBI. Kane did refer to Allen as the juice in Organized Crime down there and that seems strange to say to a cop if you yourself are a genuine mob associate.

      • EndOfTheWorld says:

        I don’t know. I’m no mob expert but I don’t see how a guy could be an FBI informant on the mob AS A CAREER. What happens is sometimes guys snitch but then they have to go on the Witness Protection Program—false identity, a house way out in the sticks, etc. But what do I know? Do you believe the story that Kane was following Darlene Ferrin?

        If you’re saying he was basically an undercover cop type—that also is a job that doesn’t last forever. After a while their face is too well known by the bad guys and they have to transfer to maybe an office job—something with a lower profile. At least that’s my understanding. I would like to stipulate that I myself have never been an FBI agent, nor an undercover cop, nor a Mafioso, so my expertise on this stuff is limited.

  7. EndOfTheWorld says:

    Gotta understand I’m a newbie at this solve-the-serial-killer-crime stuff but I mentioned Larry Kane as a suspect on another site and I was immediately attacked ferociously by some other posters who could scarcely believe my stupidity for thinking Larry Kane a possible suspect. The gist of their rantings was that the only reason he was ever suspected is because of a money-making scam by Harry Hines. True or false?

    • Alex Lewis says:

      You are being rhetorical and not wanting me to answer this non question I assume?

      Money making scheme: Yes, that is true. The man that lives in the sky was paying him a wage to fly and drive all over and his hotel bills. I mean whatever you do, don’t ask them for proof of claim or evidence of something these people are saying…..just accept their word as gospel.

      The reaction to Kane as suspect for Zodiac is one that is kinda conistent with the anti-Kane community. It it only Kane you wil see this reaction to, and that in itself speaks to their unconscious uneasiness in their being aware Kane ticks far more boxes in the ‘Serial Killer Application forms’ than others and including their own suspect. The idea of mundane Larry Kane turning out to be behind the Ligitimate, Legendary, Universally Recognized..,.. undisputed Heavyweight Super Criminal with myth like qualities…..Larry Kane?? We will not hear it, you bring Larry Kane up and we will shout you down.

      It is a reaction so strong by certain people that sometimes it almost seems as if the people who these reactions come from are offended and take it persoally. This is very intesesting to me, Kane and only Kane gets this angered response and dismissive rejection and it’s an uncomfortable feeling these people have because Kane to them is boring, far too much like Mr Nobody they believe and they don’t want Kane to be the man behind a mythical super criminal their minds have and do now see the Zodiac as being. Yet, they know and try to ignore the fact that of the top 5 or 6 suspects, Kane fits the mould of what many accept a serial killer to be far above and beyond the other more acceptable suspects. Loner. Intellectually gifted. Lived with mother. Divorced. Egocentric. Devious and cunning. Who He is, what He does difficult to decipher etc etc etc.

      The get angry, defensive, and then move onto the most absolutely stupid and retrarded lies of Harvey making a load of cash out of it when no book was published, no movie deals offered and his financial rewards for his work in the Z case was negative. Now if you’d like to listen to Tom V, who suffered a bad knock to his head in childhood, He’d probably tell you something that only a pathetic freak like him could: “Yes, Harvey had 19 multi-millionaire investors who invested millions in Harvey’s passion beause investors, you see, are just stupid and extremely dumb by nature.”

      Compare Kane with the much more fancied and odds on favourite in the suspect race….Art Allen. Majotrity belived him to be the man behind the moniker. A teacher fired aafter his pedophilic and inappropriate attraction to teenage girls was uncovered. This is almost never seen, a pedophile and serial killer of victims aged 16 upward….they are either one or the other, never both. His bald head was a ‘hmmmmm’ point for me also, can’t make a crew cut out of baldness.

      But, Harvey’s motive. Cash? LOL. How, from what? The real and non sinister reason obviously is that Harvey simply cared about finding Donna initially which led to his overall Zodiac case lifelong dedication!

      Harvey’s brother, himself a former police officer (you know, a trained investigator that investgates crimes for a living) told me not too long ago that Harvey dedicated His life to this case because He wanted justice for the victims.

      Ohhhh, but seen as we have it mentioned, go ask Tom how much cash He’s made from his money making scheme (not one I made up in my head, either…..but a real life one) the scheme He dreamt up. Thomas smiled with a ‘cha-ching’ vision for His future website where-by He would charge every member of His website $10 each minimum before they can join in and be active posters at his message board.

      Ask Tom how much He’s made by exploiting the case, it’s victims, and His own site members? I wonder what it must feel like to profit from the death of innocent kids whose young lives were taken simply because someone else could? Maybe I can wait for the next betty-lou to be left to die alone in the middle of nowhere and I can sprint to the publishers office and while out of breath demand “Please Rush me to the Editor, I am the casher in of the murder last week by negotiating myself a book deal. To proove this, here is how I will make profit from tragedy…”

      Maybe Tom and people like him think it’s absolutely morally sound to start cashing in on this fantastic business opportunity where it only took 5 lives to make it a possibility. It’s the lowest thing a man can do in my humble opinion.

      Tom doesn’t know empathy, the two have never met. Tom does know of something existing called morality, but has no time to get to know any of these himself. He and his name are not even worth putting into print.

      • EndOfTheWorld says:

        Yeah, they just use all kinds of ad hominem attacks on Harry Hines. When all else fails, try name-calling! Are they correct, though, that Harry Hines was the one that brought Kane to the attention of VPD or was he a POI even before the Lass disappearance? I know he lived in SF near where Stine picked up the Z. Does he have any connection to Vallejo or Napa–or Riverside?

  8. sandy betts says:

    I am very worried about you WC, you haven’t been posting , please send me an email !

    • Alex Lewis says:

      I’m still around, Zodiac hasn’t come to try & silence me yet which I am not happy with! Lol.

      Just messing. If I do post these days, it’s usually over at Richard’s ‘ZodiacCiphers’ website. I haven’t been posting much Hum because you can only go so far with the information we have relating to this case and then, barring a new lead, scientific breakthrough or new evidence found, there’s nowhere to go with it when you feel you’ve done all you can with what’s available to you. I spoke to an Agent at the FBI a few days ago regarding the Status of my pending Freedom of Information Act request in which I again petition them to release the name of the man that their own report states a witness identified someone as the man He saw murder the taxi driver. I basically wanted the assigned reference Number for my FOIA request so I could track it myself as they didn’t initially give one to me. Anyway, long story short, the agent said, after I’d given him the request title and date of sumbittion that He had checked and that He could confirm that the FOI Request I made has been assigned an agent at the Dpt. of Justice so that He/She may look into and ensure that no Privacy Laws will be breeched if they grant the request which is a official way of saying they are checking to see if He’s dead before releasing His name. As you know, The privacy law that protects the identity and rights of individuals is in force only for you when alive, they cannot be enforced and are not applied to a deceased person or persons.

      So in a nut shell the Agents words were “It’s (The Request) is in the initial processing stage with a case officer at the DOJ and you will get a response from them to let you know the outcome no matter what the decision is.”

      So as said hun, at present, I simply feel that there is nowhere to go with this case as it stands and new evidence or information is needed to kickstart new interest and for me, as you yourself know from my telling you on several occasions, I am of the opinion that that name hidden beneath the redact in that FBI document is potentially much more relevant to this case and it’s solving that many others seem to wan to give it. Yes, eye-witness reliability is known to be unreliable when remembering what someone looked like or pick them out of a line up but this witness is specifically referred to as “Witness in murder of taxi driver Identified *redacted name* as possible subject in this matter.”
      I think, and this is just my own theory which I cannot give you proof to show is accurate, but I think one of the cops that night not only did stop Zodiac, but detained Him on the street and a radio call was patched through to Officer Frank Peda who was talking to witnesses at the scene asking Peda to ask the witness could He pick the man out if He saw Him again and when the witness said He/She could, Peda was asked to bring that witness around to Jackson & Maple where they had a suspect detained.

      Controversial I know, but then again, I am controversial!

      • Alex Lewis says:

        Why wouldn’t we know this if it did in fact happen, many will ask? If this witness confirmed that yes, that’s the man who I just watched exit and leave the cab via Cherry, why wouldn’t we know of his immediate arrest? Well, most would argue that “Police never mentioned arresting anyone so that couldn’t have happened!” I’d respond to that with “Well they didn’t tell you anyone had identified a suspect as the person responsible either and so shall we say this never happened also even though it did according to a Memo footnote to the FBI?”

        I’ve said this for a long time now…. Brace yourselves for that Name! If it’s released, which I am not holding my breath it ever will, that name may likely stun and absolutely shock those who have had a passionate involvement in the case both professional and amateur investigators. And when that initial shock starts to dissipate, maybe we’ll understand why it was that the suspect ID’d as Zodiac by a Witness that night never had publication or acknowledged.

        I have also been absolutely certain Sandy that Zodiac’s threat of wiping out of A school bus was not specific but metaphorical and was directed at the specific school aged witness that ID’d Him in the Murder of Taxi Driver. He, Zodiac, was never threatening a school bus load of kids, but simply threatening ‘A’ Kid. Zodiac kinda acknowledged in His own declaration later on that He was never going after A School bus in literal terms and chastised the police for even thinking that is literally what He meant by slamming: “If you cops think I was going to take on a school bus the way I stated I was, you deserve to have holes in your heads.

        Controversial I know, but then again, I am controversial!

  9. Emanuele Ciantò says:

    Hi Alex. Do you know of other aliases Kane used that we do not know? (other than Barton, Cane, Kaye, Klein….etc). In particular I need his middle name.

    • sandy betts says:

      I am not Alex, but I do have a lot of information on Kane. He also used Williams for his last name.

      The man who has stalked me over the past 47 yrs,I was told was Cane by Harvey and by Vallejo PD, was spotted in San Francisco stalking my adult granddaughter, last Sunday at about 11 am. She took his picture which you could tell he didn’t like.
      I guess that he didn’t think she would recognize him sense he hasn’t stalked her for about 15 years , or she didn’t notice him when he was ?

      Harvey did not make up anything about Cane, he told what he knew to be the truth. It was never about money! How sad that people would think that about Harvey.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      There is One other Alias that I Myself only came to know of fairly recently and that’s the Name/Alias of ‘Larry King.’

      As for a middle name, Harvey Hines first refers to His suspect in His report as exactly this…: “Lawrence (NMN) Klein.” NMN, or ‘No Middle Name’ is specifically how Hines refers to Lawrence so, I think it’s safe to assume, Lawrence had No Middle Name. Hines does, however, point out that despite Kane having No middle name legally speaking, He sometimes did make a claim to own one. Lawrence ‘Steven’ Klein was the only example or name Harvey lists as one of Larry’s Aliases.

      I personally wouldn’t be any good at assuming Identities, false Names and ID’s for each because upon being asked for My details by police on a routine traffic stop I would immediately forget who I was that day. ‘Alex…..Ander…..Yes, Alexander R. Louis, that’s Spelled: L.O.U.I.S.” then I’d hand Him my Drivers Licence showing ‘Alan P Lewis’ before suggesting “Ohh yes. Funny the things you forget isn’t it, Officer?”

      • sandy betts says:

        I thought that he used the middle name of “Irving” after his uncle who lived in South San Francisco ? That uncle had a car lot that Harvey felt Larry borrowed some of those cars.

        The uncle was Irving Klein.

  10. Alex Lewis says:

    No Hun, He and that Uncle both showed as Co-Owners or Registered Owners when Harvey was given the plate of the Vehicle Kane was l;ast known to be driving & then had the plate ran through DMV. Showed Two Co-Owners of Lawrence Steven Klein & Irving Klein both at same registered address.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      I have never personally seen Kane using the Alias of Williams but I know if you say you know He did then as I said before, I know that if you say or state something then you’ll have a good & valid reason to do so.

      The only reference to ‘Williams’ I can think of is Kent Williams, owner of the Sierra Club which Kane used as an Address on occasion.

      PS – It may also be of interest to note that the man who first discovered the ‘Donna Lass Grave-Site was a Mr Otto Fredericks who approached & told Kent Williams that He had found a ‘Grave Site’ which I find interesting because if I came across that ritualistic looking stone arrangement I may think of possible Devil Worship Site etc but not assume it to be the burial site of someone.

      • sandy betts says:

        Thanks Alex, It was Harvey who told me that Kane used the name Kent B. Williams. I found one in Walnut Creek. I thought that was interesting , because my sister lived there and she thought she saw my stalker down town Walnut Creek back in the 90’s. That was the year that I started my investigation into Kane. I was able to find some things that Harvey hadn’t found. Like the business he was in partnership named ” Allied Aluminum”, with a Carl Sapia. Kane was suing Carl and Carl had a very bad “accident” during the trial. Kane won something like $12,000 and a golf cart that belonged to Carl.

        I didn’t know that the car Kane had last, had both his name and Uncle Irving. It was Harvey who told me Uncle Irving had a car lot , I think it was in Burlingame? I took notes when I was at Harvey’s home, because he had so much to tell about Kane. He showed me the pictures of the sticks and stones in the woods. I went there looking for Donna’s grave.
        Did his son tell you that a few days after Pam and I went to see his dad, that someone took a few shots at Harvey and tried to set his house on fire? That was told to me by Pam.

        I still have Kane’s finger prints that LE said they couldn’t get, if you want them now that he is dead, I don’t think I can get into trouble for sharing them with you? It has a huge red stamp on it, saying I would need permission to show them to anyone! If they take me away will you bail me out? LOL

        Hugs to you from me.

  11. Alex Lewis says:

    Sandy, in regards to your commenting. . .

    “I didn’t know that the car Kane had last, had both his name and Uncle Irving. It was Harvey who told me Uncle Irving had a car lot , I think it was in Burlingame?”

    Irving Allen Klein Held a High position in the Company ‘O.K.Manufacturing Company, which was located at 1101 Bransted Road in San Carlos. As of 1976 He drove a Datsun Calif. Plate 734PYQ which was Registered and showed belonging to Irving Allen and Lawrence Steven Klein respectively. The DMV showed that both Lawrence and Irving had listed the same address of 1033 Eden Bower Lane, Redwood City, CA.

    Irving Klein was issued A Citation (Citation No. T266593) on April 13 of 1975 at 12:45 pm on Interstate 80 at approx. Four Miles East of Truckee. The Ticket was issued by The California Highway Patrol and the officer that had Cited Irving Klien had added at bottom of the Citation “Mr Irving Klein is a Government Contractor.” It was also noted that Irving had the aforementioned address in Redwood City but also used another address of P.0 Box 699 Truckee, CA.

    • sandy betts says:

      I do recognize “Eden Bower Lane” but forgot that it was in Redwood city. I knew it was south of San Francisco . It wouldn’t surprise me if Larry used a drivers license with Irving’s name on it, because his Ca. license was taken away.. I saw two Calif. license that belonged to Larry ,which he got with in a couple of hours of each other, looking totally different in each picture.

      Just prior to 1972, I was asked by a man with a brown crew cut, not sure if he had on glasses or not? Who came out from a employee door in a casino at Lake Tahoe. The man told me he could show me a machine that pays off every few minutes. He asked me to go outside and across the street with him. I didn’t go, but I will always wonder if that was Kane or not ? The man wasn’t a large man, probably about 5ft 8 165 pounds.

      I looked over this thread and saw that you have some prints. I am confused, were those the prints off of Hartnell’s car, or are those Kane’s? The ones I have of Kane’s are all 5 of his right fingers taken by police, he had small fingers.

      • Alex Lewis says:

        Good job you had pointed out the prints I have uploaded above because they are the Latent Lifts from Bryan Car Window found and lifted Sep.28th 1969.

        And no I don’t think Destry told me about Harvey’s House fire, He may have done but know I came across it in HH report because it happened just after Harvey came back from confronting Kane in Tahoe. I remember reading it because Harvey said He was out with Destry who was only young then and I think, almost sure HH said that Destry had noticec as they were walking toward the house that smoke seemed to be coming from a window.
        HH ran into the house and upstairs to find no accidental cause but sitting slap bang in the middle of The Bed was the files and facts etc all relating to Kane.

        I think He said the message was clear being nothing was vandalized or drawers turned out ion the floor etc, just one single set of specific Docs o fire on His bed, the docs about Kane.

        But anyway, prints above are the K’ Ghia window latent lifts. I’ll re-name them correctly when I got 2 minutes. 🙂

  12. sandy betts says:

    I think it would be a good idea to compare the Kane prints to the ones on Hartnell’s car. The fire at HH was also right after Pam and I went to talk to Harvey about my suspect and to see if he was Kane or not? I picked out the arrest picture because that is exactly how my suspect looked. I told HH to give Kathleen Johns the same photo line up as me, She also picked the same picture I did HH told me. I found out that she was in San Jose from one of the detectives at SFPD and I told HH to go there and talk to her.
    Everything was around that time frame and then the fire.

    When Zodiac goes into a home he hasn’t been known to disrupt anything. He only gets what he wants done taken care of and leaves. So I am not surprised he grabbed the Kane files and set them on fire. I didn’t know HH had any other files other than about Kane.

    That reminds me of what he did in Martinez to Daniel Williams. He didn’t notice anything out of place , but there was arsenic in the soft drink inside of the refrigerator. Zodiac was smart enough to not let Williams know that he had been in his home.
    Zodiac had phoned Williams10 times, warning him he would do something to him and he did. He also said he would go to the school for a victim. And would kill the lady in the blue house.

    William’s described the voice to a tee ! Only he though Zodiac had a rag in his mouth, but that is how he sounds, like he has food or something in his mouth or a weird drawl, it is hard to understand him at times.
    One day I will put all of the phone calls I received form the man claiming to be Zodiac onto one tape.. Right now the calls span over many years on many tapes. I do have a tape of Kane’s voice talking to 20/20 TV. and it is very similar.

  13. jeremy says:

    Great site here! Thanks! Kane definitely is a good suspect in the Zodiac case. He was a weirdo and he had a rap sheet pretty long for this and that, as you show here. Great work! He seemed to be a con-man and he has all these consistent charges every couple of years up until 1968, about 4 months before the 1st known Zodiac crime on Lake Herman Road. Then, bam, as you can see in his report, he goes “under the radar”. Very odd to me being that if he indeed was the Zodiac, the murderer of the Lass girl, or both, than this would explain the fact that he kept off the police radar from 1968, until a freaky illegal cable hook up charge in 1980. That is one large gap and is inconsistent to his prior arrests of every couple, maybe every few years up to 1968. Kane seemed to have charges for peeping tom and prowling stuff and he did live very close to the Stine crime scene at the time. The Peeking Through The Pines Zodiac letter written to the paper/police is eerily similar to where Kane moved in 1970 to the Lake Tahoe area. Lass went to Tahoe, and I believe Kane followed and she was murdered, right? Did they find her body? Not sure but Kane was a great suspect in that Lass case, and with his brain injury plus his con artist ways and being he was odd, he makes a good suspect. The descriptions in some of the crimes kind of resemble him…age, hair color, glasses, his different walking pattern etc. Zodiac seemed to kill around places with names of water. Ironically, he moves to the Lake Tahoe area in 1970, a few months after the last known Zodiac crime in SF and than the Lass girl vanished. I think Kane even worked right down the hallway from her at one point in 1970. Something like that. Kane could be the infamous Zodiac Killer. Let’s just say, he does make an interesting suspect! Harvey Hines did a great job at putting those pieces together on Kane. Great site you have. Thanks. Enjoyed reading it and Kane was a goofy, oddball con-man shyster type of guy and may well be just the guy, The Zodiac Killer. These things on Kane may well be more than a coincidence. Or not.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Firstly, thank you for the compliments.

      Secondly, You asked: “have they found Donna’s Body?” If not Her remains, then maybe any trace of what happened to her? The Simple and Short answer is: No.

      She left the Sahara Tahoe Hotel late in the early hours and just vanished off the face of the Earth. No witnesses from that night nor colleagues on duty with Her have come forward to say they saw Donna Leaving the Hotel that night, whether she was with someone or alone, and if She seemed distressed etc.

      There is a rumor I’ve heard on a few Chat Boards that A Friend or Colleague of Donna’s is said to have observed Donna Leaving Work that night in the company of a White Guy with reddish hair in a crew cut and Horn Rimmed glasses but that just sounds too convenient to Me in the description Donna’s Friend/Colleague is claimed to have given of the man with Her. It sounds like someone who knows what Zodiac was described as looking like and is using that known Z descriptive detail to assign to a Mystery White Male, intending to imply almost certainly “Donna was abducted/Left willingly with, not just an Un-Sub WMA, but The Bay’s very own: Zodiac Killer.

      • Alex Lewis says:

        Personally speaking, I would imagine the Not Knowing who killed Donna, when they did it, How they did it, and why they did it is far worse a fate than actually knowing what happened to Her even if the murder specifics are heart breaking to be aware of to Her Family. Even if knowledge of how a loved one died is knowledge that is heart-breakingly painful to know, it is still preferable to knowing nothing at all because then, everything is possible, every conceivable scenario visited as A ‘What if’ as to her last hour on Earth.

        As utterly deplorable, inhumane and downright sadistic the details of Cecelia’s last Hour is to know the details of….Cecelia’s family know that She is not suffering somewhere being held captive, and they have that place that they can go to morn Her, the spot they know Her mortal remains are located, if and when they may wish to do so.

        Donna’s family have no such small a comfort to go and remember her at the place her body lay, Her killer has robbed them of that little comfort. How any Human Being can sit back and watch a Family in absolute torment over not knowing where their loved one is and what their fate was and care absolutely nothing about that families suffering but get a kick out of their knowing all the answers because they are Entitled to Abduct, Assault, Murder and then Conceal their act and victim’s remains….Not something I remotely recognize as belonging to the same Human Race that I myself do!

        Empathy they know Not, Sympathy & they are estranged, Compassion is in exile and The ‘Do unto others’ thing is only for everyone else not them.

        We call that: The Sociopath and/or Psychopath. Them who Choose to see others as objects and without feelings. The sooner We as a species can rid ourselves of them who think and act like the Word only came into existence so that it may revolve around them, the much better and more highly evolved We’ll be!

  14. LT says:

    I think you mentioned that this suspect, Lawrence Kane, was born on April 27th. It was mentioned in Robert Graysniths book about the Zodiac that he often used the astrological symbol for Taurus in his letters or ciphers. This birthdate would make Lawrence Kane a Taurus which it was thought would be the sign of the Zodiac killer.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      There are several ‘correct’ Dates of Birth for Lawrence. For Example, when reading the opening description of Harvey Hines Report, He states His suspect is, quote:

      “Lawrence ‘NMN’ Klein. DOB: April 29, 1924. Other DOB: April 29, 1922.” End quote.

      According to the FBI Official Records, Klein/Kane has a DOB of April 26, 1924.

      So it’s not exactly clear. I tend to use the FBI Official DOB for Him. He’s also buried as ‘Lawrence Cane: B. April 26, 1924 – D. May 20, 2010

      • LT says:

        All of those dates would still make Kane a Taurus…

      • galaxie500 says:

        “so it’s not exactly clear”

        As the city of New York has strict policies regarding the release of vital documentation to the public, it’s doubtful that we’ll ever have a definitive answer to this question. I do, however, note that Kane’s date of birth is consistently recorded as April 29, 1924 on documents ranging from 1941-ca. 1960. Not that this proves anything, of course – he frequently provided demonstrably false information about himself on these very same documents (he often took liberties with his father’s name and place of origin, for example.)

      • sandra betts says:

        I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 . He used so many different birth dates , I think he forgot when he was born?

      • galaxie500 says:

        “I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 .”

        This is the same date that he used on his SS application and two marriage licenses (one from 1945, the other from 1959.) I’m inclined to believe that this was his actual date of birth.

        Another curious tidbit is that Kane, in his later years, sometimes listed his birthday as Nov. 01, 1930.

      • EDIT: This is reposted from below to here as it is the appropriate reply section.

        Well firstly, I agree with both Yourself and G-500 that we can’t point to one DOB and say definitively “That one there is His true DOB, the rest are false.” However, I Myself, (and I am simply speaking from Personal Perspective \ POV here), I differ in opinion from Galaxie500 and whereas He believes the most likely actual DOB for Kane is April 29, 1924 I tend to lean toward His actual DOB as being: April 26, 1924.

        Now I don’t claim to be more likely to be correct and will and do admit happily that Galaxie500 is just as likely to be correct as to the true DOB because I can see the grounds for His opinion ie, Lawrence used that DOB for SS applications and other official things. I base My assumption/opinion on the April 26th of 1924 being ‘probable’ or most likely to be His real one basically on two things:

        Firstly, The FBI. They have Him as ‘Kaye, Lawrence. B. 04/26/1924.’ This is, after-all an Official Record via Official Agency that itself has access to numerous Database’s & Record Indexes that we, Joe Public, do not.

        Secondly and finally: The US Navy + The State of Nevada have, while listing Him under a differing Name of ‘Cane, Lawrence’, they have His Memorial as & with the same DOB of Apr. 26th, 1924.

        But again, G500 is just as likely, if not more so than myself, to be correct.

      • Galaxie500 says:

        Hi, Alex. I recently came across a document that has some bearing upon the current topic of discussion. When you get an opportunity, check your inbox over at ZKM.

      • Galaxie500:

        Ok Cheers mate, Nice One! Will head that way now & have a look. 🙂

      • Very Interesting G, indeed! Seen as there is only one Klein, Lawrence listed under that Borough in 1924 that matches one of Kane’s known, more regular used DOB’s then, I think We can assume with confidence that is Him. As such, I shall change My original assumption/opinion and say due to what You sent me in the email, April 29, 1924 is elevated higher and above the April, 26,1924 alternate.

        Always happy to change My mind and/or opinion when evidence comes to light seemingly suggesting A is likely to be correct over B C & D!

        Thanks Galaxie, the more facts, or substantial evidence point to a fact, that wWe can lock in . . . better it is for clarification for researching Kane and His History.

  15. Sandy Betts says:

    That is if you believe that the three 8’s were really Taurus signs. I think that the three 8’s were meant as the eighth letter in the alphabet H. As in Ha Ha Ha.
    Or another clue to the RH at Riverside.

    I just read that there will be a Zodiac TV series starting soon, the new Zodiac movie will be out on June 9th. The movie is based on the theory that Zodiac wore his costume to hide his face, because he was being filmed. That is something that I have theorized for many years. Ken Narlow thought the same as I did. I wonder if the writer for this film read the message boards and got his idea from message board posts?

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Possible He and A Co-Conspirator were involved in some snuff movie making spree. There’s some weird people out there who’s pay shed loads of cash for a real snuff film. Obviously, these are ‘Society’s Freaks’.

      If You assume Lake B was a lights, camera and Murder scene filmed from a second location by a second person then surely all the Zodiac murders would have to be, or at least very likely to be, carried out in the same vein with same motive? Maybe that’s the reason Me Z had to go and end up one block further at Cherry when He said originally ‘Maple’. . . The cameraman was shooting scene two at a second street?

      But then at BRS it would be pretty useless filming without artificial lighting cause all You’d essentially see is muzzle flash after muzzle flash with little else due to the pitch blackness. Same with LHR.

  16. Barbara says:

    Well wrote alex

  17. sandy betts says:

    Alex, Kathleen and I both picked out the same picture from Harvey’s picture line up. She picked him from the 2 hr ride she took with her abductor and myself from the man who kept following me and trying to force me off the roads late at night. The picture I picked out was also a match to the man I got away from in Vallejo the winter of 1968.You have done a wonderful job with your investigation of Kane.

    • Alex Lewis says:

      Hi Sandy. Firstly, thank you for the documents u sent via post, received them around 5 days back. The envelope states it cost you $5,10 to send me that which, as I said before u sent it I will refund you if u wish. As for the post above, reply to that when I get time but for now just wanted to let u know I received what u sent me 😁

      • sandy betts says:

        I am just happy to be able to be of help.No need for a refund.If I find more information on Kane that I have in one of my many boxes , I will send them to you. I have a better set of his fingerprints in another box. What do you think about Kane’s handwriting I sent and how he lies about his birthday?
        Not sure about how good the new Zodiac television show will be? I understand that the producers won”t have access to information from SFPD or Vallejo? That leaves only Napa and Lake Tahoe?

  18. Alex Lewis says:

    Sandy, having researched this case to the extent I have, I, Like Many others and probably includes yourself, can and would be able to spot and pick out A Zodiac handwritten addressed envelope in among 100 other non Z Envelopes. As such, the page You sent me that you wrote “This was given to me at the bar where I worked…” That message is, to Me and in My opinion, unquestionably written by the same hand that penned the Zodiac letters. Who gave that to you? At which Bar?

    • Alex Lewis says:

      You say also You don’t recall what He physically looked like, only that He dressed very smartly. Try and remember Hun cause theres no doubt in my mind that handwriting is the print that came from The same Hand that wrote letters “This is the Zodiac Speaking”

      • Alex Lewis says:

        There’s everything rite down to the unmistakable three stroke Letter ‘K’ in the message. “Secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hard working + aggressive. . .” is the opening two lines of the message I refer to Sandy.

      • sandy betts says:

        Thanks Alex, I didn’t know what Z’s writing looked like when that particular note was given to me by the writer. I kept it because I was very flattered by the idea that he felt I was brilliant LOL.It was yrs later that I thought it looked like Z’s writing. It was given to me by the man who was dressed so nicely at the restaurant where I worked in Oakland Ca., named Pier 29. I do remember he had brown hair but I do not remember his face at all. I would love to be hypnotized, I might remember something very important to the case? The other note i sent to you, was looked at by a few so called experts. One said that it was too much like the Zodiac’s writing to be from him.It wasn’t done by a copy cat, because my friend saw my suspect write that note at Lyon’s restaurant Antioch Ca., around 1987. He made sure that everything known to be in Zodiac letters, was put in that note. I think he thought I would recognize the writing, but I didn’t at that time. Looking back , he wrote that note telling me to get the Zodiac book by Graysmith, so he could start his mind game with me.That book actually saved my life!I was able to recognize who I believe is the Zodiac because of the descriptions Graysmith put in that book. My stalker came into my job at Pier 29 on Jan.16th 1988. He was with a group of people and was celebrating a anniversary.He made sure that he wore clothes just like what K Johns said he wore the night she went for a ride with Zodiac.Even the very shinny shoes. A male friend of mine followed that man out to his ca,r to get me his license plate number. Eight months later on my birthday, my friend was stabbed , disemboweled and left to die in Oakland.I am s.ure it was because he followed my suspect and gave me the plate number.Another friend who ran the plate for me was shot at on Mothers day 1988.I have no doubt that I have crossed paths with Zodiac.Being a waitress living in Napa and working in Vallejo in the late 60’s , the odds are pretty good!

  19. Well I won’t pretend to be even an amateur Sherwood Morill, nor a questioned document examining supremo but what I can profess to be is someone who has spent countless Hours looking at, reading through and even once wrote a thread over Mikes site in regards to the pressure point ink points of the individual letters as they ae formed etc so when I say ‘I Know’ the printing of the Zodiac’s intimately. . . That is absolutely what I know! I’d even feel confident enough to correctly distinguish a authentic Zodiac written letter from a traced extremely close copied fake.

    I don’t know who gave You that note Sandy, maybe it was delivered by a 3rd party ‘On behalf of. ..’another with that other being The Zodiac, or certainly the same individual who penned the Letters to The Chronicle, Times, Examiner etc. That short complimentary acknowledgement Sandy I would say, without any hesitation or doubt, came via the same hand who would often open His other not so complimentary letters with “This is the Zodiac Speaking. . .”

    Now Me personally hun, if I received a Halloween Greeting Card like Paul Avery was sent by the Zodiac saying “Alex You ache to know my name. . . So open and see inside!” Then “BOOO Alex, You are dead!” I would be writing back “No I ain’t, I’m on a 747 leaving the Country, and ehhh, Goodbye!” Lol.

    • Graysmith, or Grey-Area as I now refer to Him as due to that being far more accurate a description of where the truth is in what he says and writes, this interview He gives here is the reason nobody has to try to Discredit RG by making Him look stupid cause in this interview He seems to need no help & is doing a wonderful job of that all on His own.

      Exhibit A: Presenting to the public a bag of complete untrue bull shit, passing it off in statements of fact. Statement of Faff, that’s what it is!

  20. “Secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hard working + aggressive. . .”

    I think Zodiac must have been giving you this communication Sandy in direct reference of Me, this makes complete sense because Zodiac no doubt would observe the Welsh effort and use responsive words and phrases like the ones we see here with most notable and obvious descriptive match to Myself being “Extremely Brilliant…”

    See Hun, us Brit’s are far too modest and humble, are we not?
    🙂 Hehe

  21. sandy betts says:

    Well you are probably correct Alex LOL. And as far as R Graysmith is concerned , he did say that Zodiac may not have been Art Allen and could be someone we have never heard of. That part was correct. Bowart, Narlow and Toschi , did like Art Allen best as a suspect. The sad thing is that they never stopped thinking he was, even after proof of DNA and prints showed he was not! I have a friend who believes William J Grant was Z, when the bloody cab print proved not to match Grant. My friend said it didn’t match because Grant used some cut off finger to leave a false print. People who have suspects have blinders on when it comes to proof that their suspect is not Zodiac. If anyone could prove that mine is not, I will be happy to know it. I just want who ever Zodiac is caught, even if he isn’t my suspect and I am sure you feel the same way.

  22. sandy betts says:

    I received a email this morning showing a post by galexie500, but I can’t seem to find it here?So I copied and pasted it below.

    Response to Alex Lewis:

    There are several ‘correct’ Dates of Birth for Lawrence. For Example, when reading the opening description of Harvey Hines Report, He states His suspect is, quote: “Lawrence ‘NMN’ Klein. DOB: April 29, 1924. Other DOB: April 29, 1922.” End quote. According to the FBI Official Records, Klein/Kane has a DOB of April 26, 1924. So … Continue reading Lawrence ‘Larry..

    “I have one paper that Kane filled out at a doctors office, he wrote 4 -29-1924 .”

    This is the same date that he used on his SS application and two marriage licenses (one from 1945, the other from 1959.) I’m inclined to believe that this was his actual date of birth.

    Another curious tidbit is that Kane, in his later years, sometimes listed his birthday as Nov. 01, 1930.

    Harvey told me that Kane also used 4-22-24 and 4-24-22.This is the first I heard that he also used Nov 1st 1930, perhaps some wishful thinking?
    I remember listening to Kane talking to someone named Martin from the TV show 20/20. Darlene’s sister Pam did a 3 way call to Martin and asked that he play it again for her, so I could listen to it. His voice was very much like one of my callers, except that I could hear a slight trace of a NY accent. Most people wouldn’t notice it, but I recorded it and played it many times to hear anything unusual in his voice. There was also a very slight lisp.

    On the doctors office paper that Kane filled out , is a very good sample of his handwriting.. The date for that billing was July 7th 1995. I sent a copy to Alex for his records, along with Kane’s finger prints that law enforcement said they couldn’t find.

    As most of you know , I believe that there were more than one person involved in the Z crimes, Kane could very well be the main part of that group.On I received a post from a Larry Kane asking me to stop posting about him. I printed out that post for my records.

    I have to document everything,because it is too hard to believe that a grown man would think to do some of what he has done over the years.A lot was very child like, like writing all over my car. When I reported that to my local PD , the officer commented” What adult male would think to do that” ?

    • Well firstly, I agree with both Yourself and G-500 that we can’t point to one DOB and say definitively “That one there is His true DOB, the rest are false.” However, I Myself, (and I am simply speaking from Personal Perspective \ POV here), I differ in opinion from Galaxie500 and whereas He believes the most likely actual DOB for Kane is April 29, 1924 I tend to lean toward His actual DOB as being: April 26, 1924. Now I don’t claim to be more likely to be correct and will and do admit happily that Galaxie500 is just as likely to be correct as to the true DOB because I can see the grounds for His opinion ie, Lawrence used that DOB for SS applications and other official things. I base My assumption/opinion on the April 26th of 1924 being ‘probable’ or most likely to be His real one basically on two things:

      Firstly, The FBI. They have Him as ‘Kaye, Lawrence. B. 04/26/1924.’ This is, after-all an Official Record via Official Agency that itself has access to numerous Database’s & Record Indexes that we, Joe Public, do not.

      Secondly and finally: The US Navy + The State of Nevada have, while listing Him under a differing Name of ‘Cane, Lawrence’, they have His Memorial as & with the same DOB of Apr. 26th, 1924.

      But again, G500 is just as likely, if not more so than myself, to be correct.

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